Casuarina cunninghamiana progression

[Steven]

Thanks for the feedback guy's.

is there an effective needle length reduction method for these, other than trimming

Nope, just pluckin' or trimmin'.

Regards,
Steven

[treeman]

It's a very nice little tree steven BUT I feel the need to say.....We all need to start breaking away from styling every tree (native or exotic, evergreen or deciduous) with a pre conceived Japanese classical Pine tree in our minds. I want to start a new thread about this soon (thanks for reminding me) We need to get to the next level with our design...

[Rory]

It's a very nice little tree steven BUT I feel the need to say.....We all need to start breaking away from styling every tree (native or exotic, evergreen or deciduous) with a pre conceived Japanese classical Pine tree in our minds. I want to start a new thread about this soon (thanks for reminding me) We need to get to the next level with our design...

Yeah I have commented before in one of Stevens other threads about traditional oriental styled casuarinas. Some like it, some don't. I can appreciate the immense work put in and the effort, but I don't style my trees like this I agree, but again, I do appreciate and understand those that do.

I know that I am going to agree with what you are saying Mike before you even start that thread.

There are always going to be the exceptions such as climbers and shrubs and weeds, that you can kind of style any way you want as the 'wild version' would make you cringe in disgust.

[Steven]

G'day Mike,

I'm really looking forward to reading your thread when you get to it!
I see your point however I did try to mimic the branch movement of Casuarina in the wild (please visit that link to see my inspiration).
Perhaps the plucking of foliage has been a bit too even? I'm genuinely interested to know what you (and others) feel makes this design 'Japanese Pine' and what you would do to make it more 'Casuarina'.

Regards,
Steven

[hugh grant]

In my opinion Steven this tree really expresses to me an old casuarina. The structure that a tree exhibits is where distinguishing aspects of a trees features are created within bonsai. the structure of this tree really exhibits the characteristics of casuarina. Twisty lower branches coming Up out of the trunk and then hanging down and then more elevated branching as your rise up the tree.
I remember listening to the discussion when you where styling his tree, the I aspired idea is really coming together !

[Rory]

I guess....

https://www.cbs.org.au/Native_Shows/bons ... 0large.jpg

That is an example I have always liked of a close attempt to getting the 'bones' right for a good start to styling it in its natural growth formation.
I am not saying the branching isn't 'casuarina' styled on yours, as I can see you have put a lot of effort into that, as with them in the wild, you will always see branches gradually going up, or branches gradually going down and more often than not, you will see both examples on the same tree. It is more to do with the upper half of your tree.

I think it is also the tapering of the trunk on this one, and the way it has the 3 point metric of a traditional oriental styled tree. Again, I love it for what it is Steven.

It doesn't scream out to me 'natural looking' Australian casuarina for the above reasons. But having said that, in the wild you will definitely see a trunk going off at a sharp angle and then gradually growing upwards. But normally you wouldn't see such 'good for bonsai' taper on them in the wild though, which can make this species not very suitable for shohin for this reason. Generally wild trunks are quite long and without dramatic tapering like yours. I hope this makes sense, and you don't think I'm picking on you. I love your passion for natives, and these are just my thoughts.

If you look at the 'inspiration for bonsai' threads you posted many years ago about casuarina in the wild, it is the trunk (the backbone) of this species that should be focused on mainly for casuarina in my opinion, including the upper half of the tree as the trunk can often form multi trunks and spreads upwards on mature species.

viewtopic.php?f=106&t=1230

viewtopic.php?f=106&t=1232

From my experience, most often in casuarina, main branches will develop 'multi trunks' as you go up the trunk, and you don't get that oriental 'one main trunk and branches going off to create the whole tapering of a triangle of branching' formation style. Generally the upper half is more of an elongated cone, rather than a triangle. One very distinguishing characteristic of casuarina is main branches can grow almost parallel with the trunk upwards and THEN, they curve down or up for the straggly and ragged growth that you have depicted so well in all your branches.

The plucking you have done is perfect, and creates the illusion of size perfectly.

If it were mine, there is really nothing I would change with the lower half, it is awesome, I would be changing the upper half. But again, this is just my thoughts Steven. What you have done for Casuarina bonsai in Australia I you.

*EDITED to include the very helpful threads Steven posted on inspiration from nature Casuarina*

[Rory]

Please excuse the infantile Paint image, but I hope you understand what I'm saying. This is a very, very, very rough 30 second sketch idea of what I mean.

StevenCas.jpg

*EDIT* I think I'm going to get flamed for this, so just before anyone makes an assumption, let me say:
I am not saying this picture is a blueprint for a native cas, as I would probably prefer a more slender trunk, but I am simply trying to say that if I owned that awesome piece of stock that Steven does, I would do something like this to the upper half, which again would make it iconicaly Casuarina, rather than looking like a Japanese pine.

The other very, very small nit pick , is that it appears this tree has the foliage mostly cut off from growing down with the needles, and retaining the strong growth on the needles mostly pointing upwards. But to create the more balanced cas look with the slight 'weep' of the needles, it would look more effective to me, to leave more of a balance between upward and downward growing needles. Again, this is simply something I prefer to see on pines, rather than cas.

I'm going to stop taking now. Sorry Steven.

[PeterH]

Steven,

I Think it looks great ,just like an old tree.

Kind Regards,

Peter

[kcpoole]

My Father lives along side Lake Macquarie in NSW and there are millions of casuarina around the shores.
Sorry but i do not know the subspecies, but that are all upright growing styles and as Bonsai IMO would look pretty crap!

Compare these trees to the ones depicted in Stevens inspiration thread and the twist, bends and curves on his tree more closely mimic his inpiration trees rather than my examples around the lake.

if you are going to style Aussie natives to mimic only those we see in nature, then I think you are limiting you styling options far too much and constraining ourselves into a preconceived box

Ken

[Rory]

Compare these trees to the ones depicted in Stevens inspiration thread and the twist, bends and curves on his tree more closely mimic his inpiration trees rather than my examples around the lake.

if you are going to style Aussie natives to mimic only those we see in nature, then I think you are limiting you styling options far too much and constraining ourselves into a preconceived box

Ken

I respect your opinion and understand what you are saying Ken, I honestly do. The branching Steven has replicated here is fantastic, it is more so the trunk and the taper that I was referring to. I mean this in a nice way, that I have never seen a cas look like this in the wild. I am a bit odd yes, and I actually love the look of a native cas in the wild. For me, the absolute wild ragged branching of their natural form alone gives such a beautiful sight to behold that I wouldn't think they are necessarily dull being perceived in this way but I certainly can understand why some would think otherwise. I guess it is the old chestnut - being would you style a Eucalyptus like a deciduous tree with bent down branches or not. The reason I in particular am making these comments was more of an observation, and more to assist those wanting to replicate Steven's attempt, as it is clear he is wanting to replicate a Casuarina (or so I assume), by intensily copying the branches, that I would think he may also apply this great skill to other areas, which is also presumably what Treeman is hinting at.

There are also many examples of casys leaning over, cracked and struggling, semi-cascade over water, grouped, the list goes on as far as presenting options to emulate from the wild which would make spectacular displays.

I think all Mike is presumably trying to say and myself too, is that the 'perfect' pine-like casuarina tree displayed here is what I have never seen in the wild for the above reasons. Again, I actually think what Mike is saying is that to continually style a lot of trees in this same Japanese pine-like tree is actually the issue of constraint here. Please don't take this the wrong way, it is just a comment. When I first saw this thread of the tree, I realized what wonderful material this would make were it have more of a natural casuarina style to the upper half.

Regrettably I cannot give visual examples of my own, as I have not developed mine anywhere near close to even considering styling yet As for me it is a matter of preservation for the poor trees at this point But I do have my ideology of a great tree, rather than a great bonsai. I guess similarly I wouldn't develop thick great tapering like this on a Eucalyptus either. If an individual chooses to style their trees like this - as has so often been done since I have been into bonsai from the 90's - then they do look wonderful as a bonsai no doubt, and that is their prerogative.

[cre8ivbonsai]

Steven, This tree is fantastic! Love it, and will draw on it as inspiration as I slowly develop mine

If someone told me "Casuarina's would make great bonsai" purely based what I've seen in the environment (although some are interesting) I'd tell them they were nuts! But having seen Steven's many examples, and what he has done with them, they are terrific, and compelled me (and others) to want to give this species a go! Thanks Steven

[Charliegreen]

What a great looking tree!