Araucaria bidwillii

[MattA]

I was given some Bunya pines (Araucaria bidwillii) on saturday to experiment with making into bonsai. There are 5 planted around the edge of an 18" pot, they are seed grown & approx 7-10yrs old. The seed was planted in this pot and they have never been repotted or had anything done with them. Ther range in size from just over 100cm down to about 60cm and the thickest trunk is about 2cm.

I am thinking of either putting all 5 into a group setting or maybe 3 together and keeping the other 2 as single trees. However, as I have never worked with them as bonsai I would like to hear from those on the forum who have them or have grown them as to what they will & wont tolerate regarding root pruning, pruning in general and any other info that you can provide.

I have searched thru the forum and there is a few on here but very little info about care etc. As they have been given to me I want to minimise the risk of losing them. HELP please...

Matt

[Taffy]

Matt, I have seen a couple of attempts at using Bunya Pines as Bonsai, but none have been what you might call half decent. I understand the foliage is very difficult to work with because of its growth habit and the fact the foliage cannot really be cut back into any recognizable form. If you cut the underside off of the leaf whorls off, it will (and does) look a bit strange. The person who owned the ones I've seen said they didn't mind their roots pruned, but he didn't cut much off each time - and he did it in early/mid spring.

They appear to be quite hardy and require full sun and good drainage.

I'd say: Have a go! what have you got to lose? If you don't do it, you'll never know what might have been. If it works, you'll be the one that can tell everyone else how you did it and how your trees responded to the treatment.

Watch out for the Bunya nuts - one of those would most likely be heavier than your pot, potting mix, trees and maybe even the stand combined

[MattA]

Thanks Taffy,

I should start off by saying "Anyone complaining about needle juniper or any other with sharp pointy leaves should try these guys, they will never complain again" The leaves on these guys are viciously sharp and string so they dont bend or flex but stick right into your fingers.

I started work a week after posting, cutting all the branchs back to stubs and shortening the height by a few whorls. I have a young one in ground that i do this with & it responds well. It sat for a long time doing nothing but getting sunburnt (1st thing learnt: should have put it in the shade house) but I noticed last week that buds have started to appear at the ends of the upper stubs & apex. Now I have some time for the trees again, I will be getting in & checking them from root to tip & will shorten them to the lowest possible buds. I am using my Kauri as a guide, the roots look very alike so havent touched them yet, now its shooting I will repot into better soil. As I have 5 to play with I will vary the amount of root work I do to see how much they can take.


Matt

[Taffy]

Matt, I'm going to be really interested to see how you go with these. Please keep us posted on their development.

[MattA]

Waiting for transport this morning I dragged this lot out from the back corner to see how its going. Still in the same pot, I decided to wait a season to repot, giving it more chance of getting some growth back on. Tallest tree is 100cm & shortest 55cm

R0014577rs.jpg

It shot away solidly at the top but lower shoots were very weak so I completely removed the new buds in the crown & first layer of branchs once they had extended about 2-3cm(about 6wks ago). This pushed alot more energy into the rest of the tree stimulating a few more lower buds as well.

R0014579rs.jpg

New buds are forming in the areas reduced and today I pinched out all the new buds in the next 2 layers of branchs for the 2 large trees & top layer for the rest. Most strong shoots had already started to break side buds, these are shortened by atleast half, weaker shoots had the tips removed only. My hope is this will push more energy to the lower shoots.

R0014581rs.jpg

And back to a new corner for a while

Matt

[Roger]

Great work Matt!
Good trialling and reporting on where and when you prune, plus the response. Looking forward to ongoing reports.

I wonder what you are thinking about the line of the trunks. Some people growing araurcarias try to shape them as black pines with all sorts of 'S' curves. Not sure that that does anything for the araucaria story. The straight trunk and branch whorls are so much of what they are about, it will be significant if you incorporate that into your styling. A 'formal upright' if ever there is one. The form of the branches is also quite challenging. What you are finding out will help greatly for those who will try to get those long, arching branches with tufts of branchlets at the ends. Good luck and much inspiration, if your fingers stand up to the punishment

[MattA]

Great work Matt!
Good trialling and reporting on where and when you prune, plus the response. Looking forward to ongoing reports.

I wonder what you are thinking about the line of the trunks. Some people growing araurcarias try to shape them as black pines with all sorts of 'S' curves. Not sure that that does anything for the araucaria story. The straight trunk and branch whorls are so much of what they are about, it will be significant if you incorporate that into your styling. A 'formal upright' if ever there is one. The form of the branches is also quite challenging. What you are finding out will help greatly for those who will try to get those long, arching branches with tufts of branchlets at the ends. Good luck and much inspiration, if your fingers stand up to the punishment

Hey Roger,

I have to admit that I have had some experience with these as I have a small one i have been playing with for 4yrs now, raised from seed I collected at BlackButt Reserve. Out of 5 seed, 3 came up, of which 2 are now no longer... The 3rd went into the ground 2yrs ago. Growth was very slow but is gathering pace, its due for another trim of the upper branchs, pics soon.

Style is a hard one & not something I am much good at on any species, these guys present an opportunity to go off in my own direction as theres not really much to compare to. I am thinking splitting them up & using 3 together and 2 singles. The group will just be grown together in the 'natural style' of these trees tho I will try to keep them close to the "rules". One of the solo trees I want to 'style' just as it is, including whorled branching, it has very few lower shoots & i thought maybe grow it to look like an Araucaria columnaris (Captain Cook's pine) wiht that broad spreading crown above an almost bare lower trunk with the odd remnant branch still clinging to life. The last one I will probably just cut down to the first bud & follow my nose as it grows out again.

Matt

[Roger]

Thanks Matt
That sounds interesting and good. looking forward to seeing how you get on.

[MattA]

This is my little bunya 4yrs old & standing approx 42cm tall and 60cm wide.

before.jpg

overhead.jpg

In April 2006 5 seed was found amongst the remains of a cone under a mature tree standing in Blackbutt Reserve, Newcastle. They were planted in May, layed on there side with some of the seed showing, the pot was then placed in full sun. I didnt have to wait long, late October the seed had seperated from the initial growth (a bit like a carrot) so i repotted the 3 that had come up. Only the very tip of the root end was trimmed and they were individually potted into 6" pots, I lost 2 due to drying out. This one was repotted into a shortened 8" pot in spring 2007 when the tap root was removed just below a couple of side roots. In Ocotober 2008 it was planted in the ground where it was watered in & then again at 2wks and 1mth, since then it has lived on natural rainfall and a single garden wide watering during december 09.

My only reference for the genus came from the Hu Yunhua book on penjing, an Aruacaria cunninghamii approx 80yrs old & growing as a single cloud atop straight trunk. (If someone has the book & could scan it I would be very appreciative) Anyway, this one is in serious need of a trim after the late spring growth spurt. I normally allow the tree to extend one whorl each spring then cut the apex out about half way to the next one forming, do this as early as you can! They are extremely apically dominant and this pushes energy back into the already weakening lower branchs. As the tree is almost as tall as I would like, I cut the apex well below the 1st whorl but waited till it had extended the 2nd as per normal. I think next year i will do this much earlier.

apex.jpg

Now to prune the rest of the tree, I have left the lowest branchs to start thickening the base of the trunk, I know they shoot on old wood thanks to the other lot I am now working. The rest will be shortened as per normal, severely! As much as I LOVE big bonsai, part of the fun for me is trying to grow totally unsuitable species as small as possible

befprune.jpg

aftpruned.jpg

offcut.jpg

I would like to keep this one little, on its current course that would still be between 50 & 60cm tall. I am heading towards one of 2 design ends, either formal(sic) upright pine style or reduce to the first branch & turn it into a cloud tree.

after.jpg

Overheadpruned.jpg

Comments, suggestions always welcome.

Matt

[Roger]

Nice work Matt. Well documented too.
I haven't worked with Araurcarias, but have done a little with a conifer with similar growth pattern (Calocephalus). As you say, prune the new growth early. When I pinch prune the apex out of a newly forming branch, say when it is about 3 cm long, I get budding back amongst the leaves shortly behind the pruned tip. This leads to a bit more ramification close to the main branch, than if you wait until the new branch is 10 or 20 cm long. With the longer branches, again new buds form near the cut end and proportions go all out of balance.

I tried the same system with wollemi pine but the trees 'disappeared' before I could see the results. Amazing how some trees just up and walk out the door .

Do you notice any reduction in leaf size with your pruning regime? I get a little, but mostly not much. Could be some good work and observing would be useful here.

[MattA]

Hey Roger,

I just like to experiment, since I have joined the forum I am starting to keep better records. Most is still committed to memory alone but overtime I am correcting that. I looked up Calocephalushttp://florabase.calm.wa.gov.au/browse/profile/22178 I am intrigued... Could you post a photo of yours & maybe a bit of its history for me?

Wollemi.... no comment

Leaf size isnt something I had thought about or taken much notice of so I went and had a good look for you. As per normal the size of the first set of leaves is small then getting bigger till full size of about 3cm. The first branch is one of the 2 buds that formed when pruned at 1yr old, it throws more buds than any other part on the tree, even the new apex. Pic below shows dark green leaves from last year & lighter ones this seasons, not much difference in length but definitely in width. You can also see the whorl buds perculiar to a trunk shoot coming thru the middle of the spreading branchs.

leaf.jpg

It is only young and growing in the ground, will be interesting to see what happens when it goes into a pot. I would like to give it atleast another few years to get some real girth on, while I want short I dont want skinny nor sumo either. The trunk has only just caught up with the 'seed root' and I am very excited as I notice it is having its first bark peal!

posfront.jpg

Now the thread is started I will update as things happen each year.

Matt

[Roger]

Matt
So you should be intrigued! My apologies for the mistake . The name I meant to type was Cephalotaxus hainanensis. It grows on the island of Hainan off the south coast of China. Calocephalus is a name from another life a very long time ago. It just popped up .

Your notes are really valuable. As for me, I never really worry too much about 'fronts' until just as i'm setting up for a display; at other times they are just plants in the round. I've never felt that real trees had a front and back. That's just so much a bilaterally-symetric-animalpromorphism .

[MattA]

Matt
So you should be intrigued! My apologies for the mistake . The name I meant to type was Cephalotaxus hainanensis. It grows on the island of Hainan off the south coast of China. Calocephalus is a name from another life a very long time ago. It just popped up .

Your notes are really valuable. As for me, I never really worry too much about 'fronts' until just as i'm setting up for a display; at other times they are just plants in the round. I've never felt that real trees had a front and back. That's just so much a bilaterally-symetric-animalpromorphism .

HAHA ... think i will have to track down some seed of the Calocephalus.. it looked interesting, you can keep working with the Cephalotaxus it holds no interest for me

I am glad you have interest in my experiments, most of my trees end up mispotted so front is a relative term I have to disagree about trees in nature not having a front or back... wrong words to describe it.. but alot of trees definitely look better from one angle or another, it is rare that one looks right from all sides...

I just got a new native to play with, lots of research before I start and lots of note taking once I do, Gymnostoma australianum. i had not seen one before & its a nice advanced specimen & cheap ... the best combination

Matt

[Ron]

.....I just got a new native to play with, lots of research before I start and lots of note taking once I do, Gymnostoma australianum. i had not seen one before & its a nice advanced specimen & cheap ... the best combination

Sounds very interesting, Matt:

Gymnostoma australianum

(Daintree Pine)

Family: Casuarinaceae



The Daintree pine is a rare native pine from the World Heritage Forests of Far North Queensland, Australia.

It has stood the test of time with fossil records dating back to the Gondwana period.

In open, sunny conditions it grows into an attractive conical shape without the need fro pruning.

http://www.plant.id.au/home/guide_view.aspx?id=29

[Roger]

Gymnostoma is a beaut plant to work with. Foliage is graceful, bright green. If you get female flowers, their development is fascinating as the long horn-like ornamentation progressively grows out, even when not fertilised. new growth adds a soft coppery-red.

I've found the branchlets amazingly brittle. After working over the tree, lightly tip pruning and the like, a few days later I'll find dead, broken branchlets that I didn't work on lying amongst the foliage. So working with them benefits from careful, and light touching.

They are of course one of the 'casuarinas'. Australia has only one that we know of, but there are a few other species out amongst the islands to the N and NE.

In general, treat it like other casuarinas, as far as I know.

I'll try to get a pic of mine, but I'm not too good at taking pics and getting them ready for downloading, alas. You never know your luck.

Would be great to hear from anyone else who has experience with them. Finding a cheap one is good news. They have been very pricey for years. Opening a new forum would be good, but I have to learn how to do that. Shouldn't confuse people by mixing up with that spikey friend of yours.