Question: Branch ramification timing?

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hey all!

A quick question on branch ramification and timing concerning Aussie natives. I’m a little unsure of when to do this eg. Do I attempt this while the plant;
* has new growth
* after new growth has hardened off or,
* when the plant is doing neither?

I know for my Lilly pilly hedge, to create a denser hedge, every time the plant produces a new growth period, I remove the lead shoot so the 2 following shoots take off. Does this apply to Aussie natives in bonsai?

I’ve attached a pic of a kunzea I have which is in the process of growing and, am unsure if I should be clipping the lead shoots off while it’s in this growth period to promote 2 shoots from the one.

I have read that trimming a plant while it is in a growth period can be detrimental and weaken the plant so I wanted to be 100%.

I hope this makes sense!

[shibui]

Anyone can write something online these days even if they know little. Well done for questioning.
Unfortunately there's often more to it than a broad brush that natives do such and such.
For a start there are many genera of Aussie plants adapted to many very different conditions and even among single genus there can be major differences in response to certain factors like pruning.
I've found that most species ramify well when pruned while growing. Most respond far quicker when they are active as opposed to delayed response if pruned in a dormant period.
I have also noticed a tendency for many plants to produce more back buds (ie more ramification) when hardened shoots are pruned back as opposed to pinching tips where just one new bud might sprout.

The other aspect of pruning is promoting trunk thickening (which is usually a factor of more growth) so letting shoots grow and harden may be valuable even if it doesn't produce extra buds after pruning.

Just be aware that some species do not bud on bare wood easily so I've found it safer to prune before old leaves fall.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Anyone can write something online these days even if they know little. Well done for questioning.
Unfortunately there's often more to it than a broad brush that natives do such and such.
For a start there are many genera of Aussie plants adapted to many very different conditions and even among single genus there can be major differences in response to certain factors like pruning.
I've found that most species ramify well when pruned while growing. Most respond far quicker when they are active as opposed to delayed response if pruned in a dormant period.
I have also noticed a tendency for many plants to produce more back buds (ie more ramification) when hardened shoots are pruned back as opposed to pinching tips where just one new bud might sprout.

The other aspect of pruning is promoting trunk thickening (which is usually a factor of more growth) so letting shoots grow and harden may be valuable even if it doesn't produce extra buds after pruning.

Just be aware that some species do not bud on bare wood easily so I've found it safer to prune before old leaves fall.

Thanks for the sound advice and reply Shibui, I greatly appreciate that. You bring up some good important points and it’s interesting that letting the shoots grow and harden will help thicken the trunk, I wasn’t aware.

I’m a little conflicted with the pinching method for ramification and also cutting a hardened shoot for ramification. I guess it depends on species?

So many questions… thoroughly enjoying the learning process though!

[GavinG]

OK, to be clear - there are two separate phases in bonsai growing, trunk-forming (let it grow as long as you dare, watch that the oldest leaves don't fall, because you do want to cut back to them) and refinement phase, when you pinch repeatedly through the growing season to produce fine, complex branch ends. These two phases work against one another - ramifying stops the trunk thickening as much as it could, and grow-long-cut-back by definition doesn't produce complex ends. You have to pick one - until the trunk is nearly as thick as you want, don't think too much about ramifying. Good luck,

Gavin

[Mickeyjaytee]

OK, to be clear - there are two separate phases in bonsai growing, trunk-forming (let it grow as long as you dare, watch that the oldest leaves don't fall, because you do want to cut back to them) and refinement phase, when you pinch repeatedly through the growing season to produce fine, complex branch ends. These two phases work against one another - ramifying stops the trunk thickening as much as it could, and grow-long-cut-back by definition doesn't produce complex ends. You have to pick one - until the trunk is nearly as thick as you want, don't think too much about ramifying. Good luck,

Gavin

Thanks Gavin, you explain it perfectly! Sorry, I’m a tad slow on the uptake. I thought perhaps clipping as I went would help produce an interesting design with many branches to choose from. Instead I’d want to let it grow/harden off/chop for trunk thickness which is what I want.

Can you explain the clip and grow method for me? I keep hearing about this one, tad unsure on how it’s done and why.

Thanks for the reply!

[GavinG]

It's basically what we just talked about - grow long, cut back hard. For shaping, it's the opposite of wiring, - wiring is quick, and gives smooth curves, clip and grow takes longer, and gives more complex branch shapes, full of crisp angles. It's useful to have both possibilities.

Gavin