The banksia workshop

Ericifolia, Integrifolia, Marginata, Serrata, Spinulosa etc
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The banksia workshop

Post by squizzy »

To all ausbonsai people

I’ve been looking over some of the banksia threads and noticed a lot of talk around banksia and the issues people seem to have with them. People seem to be a little jaded with their experiences of growing banksia as bonsai and I wish to change that.

I am hoping to get as many people involved as possible to address these issues collectively so am looking at getting the likes of shibui, Rory, Grant Bowie, Boics, Gerard, peterH and anyone else I’ve forgotten. I’d like in addition to have the input of treeman if possible as he stated in shibui’s marginata thread he has yet to see a good reason to like banksia as a bonsai subject.

Now this thread may get dark at times with peoples conflicting opinions but we must remember they will be just that, opinions. I want there to be the good and the bad. It will help us make banksia a force to be reckoned with in the bonsai world both nationally and internationally. I truely believe banksia could be as highly praised as the JBP.

Help me out if you are game. Let me know if your in.

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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

squizzy wrote:To all ausbonsai people

I’ve been looking over some of the banksia threads and noticed a lot of talk around banksia and the issues people seem to have with them. People seem to be a little jaded with their experiences of growing banksia as bonsai and I wish to change that.

I am hoping to get as many people involved as possible to address these issues collectively so am looking at getting the likes of shibui, Rory, Grant Bowie, Boics, Gerard, peterH and anyone else I’ve forgotten. I’d like in addition to have the input of treeman if possible as he stated in shibui’s marginata thread he has yet to see a good reason to like banksia as a bonsai subject.

Now this thread may get dark at times with peoples conflicting opinions but we must remember they will be just that, opinions. I want there to be the good and the bad. It will help us make banksia a force to be reckoned with in the bonsai world both nationally and internationally. I truely believe banksia could be as highly praised as the JBP.

Help me out if you are game. Let me know if your in.

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A noble ambition. How can we help? Banksia are not for everyone nor compulsory. Heresy I know.

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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Rory »

What an excellent thread to start Squizzy. I salute you good sir, and present forth my experiences.
These are all thoughts from MY experiences, I am merely saying this is what "I" have found.

I adore Banksia. It is my 2nd favourite genus after Casuarina.

Banksia can be prone to root-rot if the drainage is poor or too slow.
Banksia mostly prefer full sun. Of all the common species, I found them to be somewhat tolerant of drying out, unlike the dwarf varieties.
Remove proteoid roots at root work, then slowly build up fertilizer, starting as low as 15-20% strength initially. Then build up slowly over the next 4 months +
I would never repot or cut-back heavily on a Banksia in the lead up to winter. For me this includes nothing in our Autumn. Its just too risky and creates other problems such as lack of vigour, the foliage not hardening off soon enough, root rot etc etc.
I add about 40% washed river sand to the mix which keeps it in great health.
I always leave a lot of foliage even after a heavy cut-back to keep in optimum health.
Do not over-pot a banksia, even if you have exceptional drainage....from my experience if you are subjected to continual rain and very little water uptake it can still be dangerous.
Do not cut-back a banksia branch if its showing poor vigour, allow it to grow and try to increase the level of sun exposure to it.

I have previously experimented with ericifolia, spinulosa and a few others but I didn't trial them in large numbers to have enough experience to put in words.

------

BANKSIA integrifolia

Excellent bonsai potential.
Possibly the best overall Banksia from my experiences.
It is very, very hardy. It can tolerate strong shade and periods of over-watering.
It reduces well, shoots back from any node and is prolific in this.
I have never had a problem after root-work nor with fertilizing.
Even growth quite below the horizontal still clings for life if it gets low-sun but I do take Grants advice and allow the ends to grow upright.
This will bulge very quickly if multiples shoots are allowed to develop. It can look good/bad, but best to remove excess buds sooner than later if you don't like this.

BANKSIA integrifolia 'sentinel'

Not a good candidate for bonsai. But lovely small foliage.
It can tolerate strong root-work, but is very highly adversive to fertilizer even in low doses and can easily kill it.
Its just not worth the hassle of forgetting this and accidentally killing it after years of hard work.

------

BANKSIA aemula

Excellent bonsai potential. I prefer this species to serrata.
It shoots back prolifically after cutting back. It grows similar to serrata, but I have found them to be hardier and faster growing than serrata.
It can tolerate strong shade.
Having been subjected to a form of botrytis it has shown its superiority to serrata in that it outgrows the rate at which the disease can develop, unlike serrata.
The bulbous base is best not kept stunted as it just ends up looking ridiculous.

BANKSIA serrata

Excellent bonsai potential
It doesn't really tolerate strong shade all that well.
The bulbous base is best not kept stunted as it just ends up looking ridiculous.
This species is really susceptible to bulging. Best to concentrate on your preferred structure sooner than later and not let 3 or more bar branches develop.

------

BANKSIA marginata

I do love this species.
A difficult species to grow. I haven't usually lost them after root-work, but more so after cutting back too much foliage or trunk chopping.
It is not a good species to experiment with heavy trunk chops. It can simply die back altogether. The humidity in my area may be a contributing factor.
I have had a successful specimen for years now, but I have not trunk chopped heavily since the first initial trunk chop for fear of major die-back.
I have probably lost about 10 over the last 3 years. Often within 6 months of trunk chops or just eventual lack of vigour altogether.
The only thing that has kept my current specimen in good health is leaving a lot of foliage on it, giving it optimal sun and adding river sand.
I have since acquired 4 more to see if these new care arrangements are adequate for the species.

BANKSIA marginata 'mini marge'

Same results as 'sentinel'.
I don't know if 'mini-marge' is actually just a variant of marginata, but any attempts I have made of stock tagged as 'mini-marge', (which do appear to have smaller leaves) have died within a year. They appeared strong even 6 months after initial root prune and repot.
However I had not trialled river sand at that stage, but if I do pursue these again in the future it will be the first thing I add to the mix after root-work.
Last edited by Rory on March 26th, 2019, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Matthew »

The only problem ive had with them is everyone ive field grown (both serrata and integrifolia) and lifted out of the ground never survived the transplant . I've tried it in November and dec. Ive given up and actually the remaining few integrifolia can go to good homes .
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by treeman »

My trouble initially was that I thought that it would be difficult to get the kind of fine detail (that is twiggy growth) I like because of the large leaves and coarseness but I have since changed my mind having seen how much the leaves can be reduced in some integrifolia examples. Serrata interests me too now. I have some 2 year old seedlings with trunk diameters of about 20mm already and I'll be interested to see how they develop. There seems to be 2 kinds of bark in the integrifolias. One is whitish a rough but fine and the other is darker and more coarse. The strain that grows locally here is the fine barked type and it grows very large indeed!
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Great post Rory.

Use the species rather than a named variety like Mini Marge, these usually lack vigour for Bonsai purposes and can be a complete waste of time.

Re B integrifolia; the tree species from seed from seed merchants is the smoother and lighter colour barked one, The species can be quite variable as to bonsai vigour, if you get a non vigorous one toss it out, it may struggle on for years but return nothing in the end.

If you grow from cuttings then please use a vigorous plant.

I was lucky many years ago when I got my first Integrifolias. They came from a School of Horticulture sale and 3 out of 4 turned out to be B integrifolia var integrifolia(the species) but the 1 of 4 turned out quite different. It was even more vigorous, eventually produced lovely rough bark and the leaves dramatically reduced over time . Never seen it for sale anywhere or on seed lists etc; just a lucky break.I have never had any duds with this one; whereas occasionally the species did throw some curveballs in that sometimes it may not back bud exactly where or how I wanted.

Still worth trying though,

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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by PWC »

I'm looking forward to seeing this thread progress being new to the forum. Has anyone had any experience with Banksia praemorsa? I have a small one in a pot and not sure if they have any potential as bonsai.

If not it will become a garden specimen.
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Starfox »

PWC wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing this thread progress being new to the forum. Has anyone had any experience with Banksia praemorsa? I have a small one in a pot and not sure if they have any potential as bonsai.

If not it will become a garden specimen.
I was about to post a very similar post, I certainly look forward to seeing the thread progress as well and thanks all for contributing so far.

I too have a praemorsa, it's young and would need years of growing but if it likes my climate I'll give it a go.
Also have a coccinea which is of a similar age, it definitely has a more robust growth pattern with thick, furry new growth. If they both are still healthy later in my season I'll cut them back and see how they respond.

I also have a few occidentalis and coccinea seeds just germinated, I have others sowed but it may be too early in the year yet.

One thing I have had in the past and Rory touched on it in saying remove the proteid roots and slowly build up the ferts but is there any saving a Banksia if it does fert burn?
Last edited by Starfox on March 26th, 2019, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by shibui »

The only problem ive had with them is everyone ive field grown (both serrata and integrifolia) and lifted out of the ground never survived the transplant
I've been working on this for a few years now. Initial attempts had around 50% live. Last attempt saw 100% survival of trees transplanted from the grow beds. Not sure yet what I have done to warrant that improvement but I have more in the beds now and will try to take more notice next time they are transplanted.
All of the above is really quite academic anyway. Trials of pot grown banksia alongside the ones I the grow beds saw the pot grown ones increase in thickness almost as much as the ground grown trees. Pot grown ones also looked better - better taper, better trunk movement, better branching. In my experience banksia are like figs - they continue to thicken rapidly in pots so ground growing may be redundant.

Banksias - great for bonsai, even better for those who don't have space for thickening trunks in the ground.

More later......
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by squizzy »

Well what an absolutely cracking start. Good to see so many banksia enthusiasts. Treeman, I’m almost disappointed we no longer have to present our case as to the greatness of banksia ( particularly integrifolia) to get you onside. Anyway we have you here and that’s all that counts.

Where to start. Rory has named all the main species I think. The following observations for me are similar.

Banksia serrata

I find the main attribute of this species it’s elephant skin type bark ( if your into it) but as far as pot culture I’m yet to work out what makes them happy. Surprisingly they can get I bit drier than I had anticipated. In fact allowing to dry a little between watering might be of benefit to the plants health. I have particularly noticed the thick layers of bark can almost rot and flake off if kept wet. The bark is also much thicker than you may realise. Some plants I’ve had have been up to 30mm thick.
Repotting is as Rory says.
For me I’ve left this species alone now. I think it still has merit as a bonsai but a different style and size than I’m willing to bother with.

Banksia integrifolia

There are 3 named subspecies. I haven’t been too concerned with which is which but after the comments bout bark I may look further into it. It’s the king or maybe queen of the banksia in my opinion. I think depending on how it’s grown it could be deemed as both. I have both styles in my collection and maybe a few cross dressers.

They too can handle a little dry. I’ve been planting all of mine in akadama now with no ill effects so far. I’m using straight akadama for all my collection now because of what I’ve heard about it’s benifits. It mostly because I’m a lazy gardener and prefer to not mix and sieve and own 10 different bags of different ingredients. For me it’s working.

When I pick up a tree from nursery stock I cut it back hard. I add a little bit of native osmocote. Then I leave it. For at least 6 weeks. If it gets through this period I’m happy to repot it. I leave a reasonable amount of foliage on. I feel this helps feed roots what they need to get going. Once established (6months) I would be happy to cut back hard again. They don’t like having to push a lot of growth if they do t have roots to support it. I only repot the banksias in the warmer months. I’ve just done a few this week but bare in mind I’m near the coast. Autumn doesn’t come as quickly for me as others.
One other quick note on repotting. All my banksia sulk for a while ( some a long time) after repotting. I see they are over it when I start to notice those little pink bursts of growth appearing.

I would like Grant Bowie to chime in on trimming the tree to balance energy as he gave me some great advice on here a year or two back. It was along the lines of trimming vertical growth at the top of the tree twice as often as sideward growth lower on the tree. Anyone else have opinions on this.

Enough typing for now. I will follow this up with some photos throughout the day.

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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by squizzy »

C63E266B-EA9F-42C6-8F64-EB96EDF20B74.jpeg
This is an integrifolia potted about 3 weeks ago. The growth it had has slowed almost to a stop. It may sulk for another week or two or possibly longer. Some I’ve had have sulked for 6 months. I will not touch it until next spring I’d imagine. Personally that’s a very difficult thing for me to do but it should be done.
8827AE9C-19F7-4DC7-B1EA-EB848AD4BADC.jpeg
this is the new growth that has stalled
One thing to note. There are parts of this tree that will later be removed but for now they remain until it gains vigour.

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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Rory »

shibui wrote:In my experience banksia are like figs - they continue to thicken rapidly in pots so ground growing may be redundant.
I too agree with this. I have previously allowed banksia roots grown in pots to penetrate the ground and thicken that way. However I also found that similar to Eucalyptus that it diverts energy towards the ground roots and loses vigour in the potted roots for my trials. I stopped doing this as a result, but I hadn't trialled the whole thing in the ground.

I have definitely seen my potted banksia grow fast in pots. I don't really see any benefit from ground growing them either.
The thickest way to grow your trunks is to allow branching to develop all over the tree. It is a sure guaranteed way to thicken quickly. If your banksia is still in the 'growing' phase, then it will heal the scar sooner than in a bonsai pot. But be mindful : it can take many years to heal scars of over an inch in diameter or more.

In regards to fertilizer burn, I have often had the leaves burn in the past, if the liquid fertilizer is left on the foliage and its a strong sunny day. To combat this, I just spray the foliage for a few seconds with the hose after fertilizing.

If you have accidentally forgot about giving strong liquid fertilizer, my suggestion is to simply flush the pot with a hose for a long time in an effort to dilute the effect as much as possible.
Then slowly start at a later date with low dosage.
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How to reduce moss from the trunk without damaging the bark: viewtopic.php?p=295227#p295227
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by MikeK »

Loving this thread! Banksia's are my favorite Aussie native so will be watching closely
squizzy wrote: One other quick note on repotting. All my banksia sulk for a while ( some a long time) after repotting. I see they are over it when I start to notice those little pink bursts of growth appearing.
I find much the same ... with big differences in duration depending on the average temp when it's done.

Quickest recovery/new growth I've seen was a week or so later on a couple of smaller tree's (1 ea serrata & integrifolia) I repotted early Jan this year (>40 degree days), post repot they got morning sun till about midday, then filtered as they were shaded by the neighbors Jacaranda. Water twice daily until I saw regrowth (so they stayed quite damp), then back to standard once a day via the irrigation dripper

Slowest was a couple of serrata's that were repotted in May/June last year ... probably saw no action at all until late Aug/early Sep and even now they have not regrown to the level of my other Banksia's. These were in full sun straight after the repot due to cooler weather & watered by the irrigation only (probably every other day). These weren't the healthiest tree's to start with though - found in the back of a community nursery, having been forgotten about for a couple of years

I also repotted a couple (1 ea serrata & integrifolia) in Oct last year, they probably did nothing for about 4 weeks

I'm now trying to stick to mid summer for reporting of Banksia's

The one I've had no success with is ericifolia. Tried a couple of these (inspired by PeterH's amazing tree :worship: ) but all have dropped dead after the first trunk chop. These were larger ones (200 & 300mm nursery pots) from a regular (native) nursery and chopped back to ~40cm tall with a couple of small branches only remaining ... maybe to hard, too fast? I dunno


Has anyone tried root grafting on an integrifolia? I have one that only has roots on one side, so I'm hoping to try to improve the nebari next summer ... any tips appreciated (never tried root grafting on anything before)
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by squizzy »

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Good observations

Apart from native osmocate I don’t do a great deal of liquid feeding so don’t have to worry about those implications slow and steady with the feed though. Once again grant has previously given great advice on here.
I can’t ground grow here( no room) so no implications there for me either.

Here is another tree I have in training. So far it has a good base and movement. A good left and right branch and then not much more beyond that. The top is slow. I’ve tried an approach graft as my 3rd branch but have had little success with this in the past on other trees. I find callous takes forever to form on banksia ( is it just me). I pinch the growth of the first two branches fairly often as shown in the photos.

Remember this is a workshop thread so some input on the rights and wrongs of my work is encouraged. Also anyone else wanting to show there works is good for this purpose also.

Pinching growth when young is important to avoid long internodes. Much the same way you would pinch Japanese maples in that first 6 weeks of spring. Only difference is that this is year round with banksia
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Re: The banksia workshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

squizzy wrote:Well what an absolutely cracking start. Good to see so many banksia enthusiasts. Treeman, I’m almost disappointed we no longer have to present our case as to the greatness of banksia ( particularly integrifolia) to get you onside. Anyway we have you here and that’s all that counts.

Where to start. Rory has named all the main species I think. The following observations for me are similar.

Banksia serrata

I find the main attribute of this species it’s elephant skin type bark ( if your into it) but as far as pot culture I’m yet to work out what makes them happy. Surprisingly they can get I bit drier than I had anticipated. In fact allowing to dry a little between watering might be of benefit to the plants health. I have particularly noticed the thick layers of bark can almost rot and flake off if kept wet. The bark is also much thicker than you may realise. Some plants I’ve had have been up to 30mm thick.
Repotting is as Rory says.
For me I’ve left this species alone now. I think it still has merit as a bonsai but a different style and size than I’m willing to bother with.

Banksia integrifolia

There are 3 named subspecies. I haven’t been too concerned with which is which but after the comments bout bark I may look further into it. It’s the king or maybe queen of the banksia in my opinion. I think depending on how it’s grown it could be deemed as both. I have both styles in my collection and maybe a few cross dressers.

They too can handle a little dry. I’ve been planting all of mine in akadama now with no ill effects so far. I’m using straight akadama for all my collection now because of what I’ve heard about it’s benifits. It mostly because I’m a lazy gardener and prefer to not mix and sieve and own 10 different bags of different ingredients. For me it’s working.

When I pick up a tree from nursery stock I cut it back hard. I add a little bit of native osmocote. Then I leave it. For at least 6 weeks. If it gets through this period I’m happy to repot it. I leave a reasonable amount of foliage on. I feel this helps feed roots what they need to get going. Once established (6months) I would be happy to cut back hard again. They don’t like having to push a lot of growth if they do t have roots to support it. I only repot the banksias in the warmer months. I’ve just done a few this week but bare in mind I’m near the coast. Autumn doesn’t come as quickly for me as others.
One other quick note on repotting. All my banksia sulk for a while ( some a long time) after repotting. I see they are over it when I start to notice those little pink bursts of growth appearing.

I would like Grant Bowie to chime in on trimming the tree to balance energy as he gave me some great advice on here a year or two back. It was along the lines of trimming vertical growth at the top of the tree twice as often as sideward growth lower on the tree. Anyone else have opinions on this.

Enough typing for now. I will follow this up with some photos throughout the day.

Squizzy
Some good observations there re repotting although mine don’t tend to sulk after repotting too much. Root pruning can slow Rees down for a bit in any species, native or exotic. Banksia can best be left to get a little pot bound before repotting; this allows the trunk to thicken in the pot and avoid root rots etc which can happen after too frequent or too early repot.

The tip about balancing vigour trimming ratios is something of an observation rather than a technique; in other words it’s is likely you will cut back the vertical vigorous growth more frequently than other foliage.



Cheers,

Grant
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