Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Share your success stories about defoliation, bare rooting and anything else relating to maintaining healthy bonsai.
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
Posts: 12289
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Contact:

Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by kcpoole »

Dennis McDermott, one of the teachers at the School of Bonsai, has over many years, created a method and process of successfully growing JBP in our Sydney climate. He has documented his process and I asked him if I could publish it here for us all to benefit from his work.He agreed and I will post in it entirety in the following posts in this thread

Dennis is member here, so post any questions you may have and hopefully he will answer them himself

I am intending on following the process along with one of my trees and hope to post some progression shots to explain it as well.

Ken
Last edited by kcpoole on December 31st, 2009, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
Posts: 12289
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by kcpoole »

Introduction

Brent Walston is IMHO probably the leading authority in the USA on growing Bonsai. Others may disagree with my opinion but he has done a lot to bring commonsense to the way they approach Bonsai over there. His Internet site is full of very valuable information on many subjects related to Bonsai.

He has an article on his Internet site that represents an approach to developing Black Pines in a warm climate - something we have to contend with. He talks extensively about the importance of timing of the work on black pines (it would also apply to other 2-needle pines as well). <See http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines2.htm >

My Experience

Having grown Black Pine for a many years I became dissatisfied with the techniques that were being taught. I was also confused by the wide variety of techniques being advocated. Having tried many including that of John Naka I came upon the techniques that the Japanese artist Shinkai advocated. Finally, I started to get results, but was still plagued by lack of secondary buds and extremely long needles. In frustration, I experimented with a number of techniques of my own to overcome these two problems.

From the experience gained I have developed a technique that works well in Sydney. I now understand that with such a complex tree as the Black Pine no single technique is correct. What will work will depend upon the climate of the area in which you live (this can even be affected by the microclimate in you growing area). I would like to offer this technique as an option that may work for you, if like me you have been frustrated in developing a Black Pine.

Most of the literature is based upon the climate of either the US (West Coast), Japan, Europe or similar. The Japanese and European climates have marked seasonal variations with the growing cycle limited to a few warmer months. The US has climate cycles ranging from cold (similar to that of Japan) to the almost tropical southern states with minimal seasonal variation and warm to hot growing seasons through most of the year.

The Sydney climate, and indeed much of mainland Australia’s climate, possesses a different combination of factors that:

have four distinct, but not extreme, seasons
is relatively warm throughout the year even in the cooler seasons.

Is it not surprising that those imported techniques are of limited applicability to us?

We have the opportunity to take advantage of the long growing period, but with the retention of a clear seasonality that is beneficial to stabilising the growth patterns of the trees. The technique below attempts to take advantage of these factors.
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
Posts: 12289
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by kcpoole »

My techniques (with due regard for Mr Shinkai’s teaching)

Stage 1

Allow the candles to develop in spring until the minute tips of the needles become just visible.

As each individual candle displays the minute tips IMMEDIATELY remove the candle totally. The only exception would be where you are trying to extend the branch you may choose to leave some of the candle. Once the needles have expanded more than 2 - 3 mm it is not as effective.

NB all of the candles will not develop at the same time, so remove each candle when it has reached that stage. This may take a week or so. On very weak branches remove only part of the candle.

Explanation - growth in trees is controlled by the movement of food from storage into the growth points. If you remove the candle too early insufficient food is available to force sufficient secondary growth; if removed too late that food is wasted in the growth you remove and it is likely that the tree will not commit further food resources to that growth point until a new annual cycle begins.

Stage 2

At least 5 - 6 weeks after removing the candles (usually November) cut each short branch back to 6 - 8 needles. Over the next few weeks if the pine is healthy and well fed this will produce secondary candles (‘summer candles’ - these actually look quite different from the long candles of the spring. The shoots produced from these secondary candles are more compact and the needles are also considerably shorter. If a pine is in very strong growth it may be necessary to repeat this process towards the end of summer/early autumn (it is amazing how quickly the amount of foliage on the tree increases on a well fed Black Pine. If you are lucky you may even get secondary candles on bare wood.

This is where our long growing season comes into its own. It allows us to get regularly repeating growth spurts that neither the Japanese, or US (West Coast,) climates do not. But the trees are encouraged still to complete their spring candle producing cycle.

Stage 3

The formation of the Spring Candles in autumn will be delayed somewhat resulting, over time, in smaller and more compact candles. Occasionally (especially in the early stages) of applying the technique some of the spring candles will become excessively large through the autumn. Remove them - never fear they will be replaced with more compact candles by spring. On many branches you will now get candles developing back inside the tree on bare wood. If more than 2 or 3 candles develop on the end of the branch, remove some leaving two strategically placed to develop in the direction you want.



Stage 4

Repeat the process for 3 - 4 years or until you achieve both the mass of foliage and the size of candles you desire. If at some time in the future the needles again begin to increase in size just repeat the process!

Ongoing

You have to be very strict. Do not allow too much foliage to crowd branches, particularly towards the apex. If you do light will not penetrate, the branches will weaken and summer candle production will be reduced.

Potting mix

I use my basic potting mix* for pines but add about 20 per cent more coarse river sand. Nevertheless whatever soil you use it must be very free draining. Pines will not tolerate wet feet. If any doubt exists that a pine needs watering then the safe option is not to water.

Fertilising

A mature developed pine does not need too much fertiliser. Your usual fertiliser in the potting soil, supplemented by some organic fertiliser once to twice a year is sufficient. For a pine in the development phase regular fertilisation is essential.

Mycorrhiza

Most conifers especially the pines have a symbiotic relationship with mycorrhiza fungus. If your tree has it, usually indicated by white threads among the roots, never completely remove it. While they can live quite happily without it in rich Bonsai soils, undoubtedly growth will be improved by its presence. The tree can be inoculated with the fungus to improve growth but it must be from another conifer, as the mycorrhiza from non-conifer trees is not compatible. To inoculate the tree make sure that the imported mycorrhiza is placed in very close contact with a root or roots, otherwise inoculation will not easily occur.

Never completely remove all needles on a branch as the branch will die back.

If too many needles develop in a tree at any stage, remove those on top and below the horizontal to encourage budding on the sides of the branch. Never let more than 2 spring candles develop at a single junction. Leave only the 2 weakest spring candles. (Not a problem with summer candles.)

Dennis McDermott
26 March 2008
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
User avatar
dayne
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 657
Joined: July 16th, 2009, 8:42 pm
Favorite Species: juniper, pine
Bonsai Age: 0
Bonsai Club: sunshine coast
Location: sunshine coast

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by dayne »

great post as i have just bought a pine but is it to late in the season to cut back the branches i dont want and choose my new lines and where do you stand on the time for root pruning and re potting im in se qld hot till late march
thanks for the post dayne
User avatar
anttal63
Bend me twist me
Bend me twist me
Posts: 5325
Joined: November 11th, 2008, 12:32 pm
Bonsai Age: 14
Bonsai Club: MYCLUB
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by anttal63 »

a brilliant and very neccessary study of the black pine for australian conditions. credit to you dennis for exploring, discovering and documenting this detail.
thanks ken for getting it up here. i can see the logic of how this works for sydney. the aggressiveness will have to vary down south where the climates get colder and frostier. up to us to sort that out now. i believe it would be a case of starting later and backing off earlier in order to keep the tree vigorous. all this said we still lack the humidity of sydney. now dennis and ken, only one thing left to do; show me the trees :P pleeeeeeeeeease :D
Regards Antonio:
User avatar
Espresso
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 87
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:29 pm
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age: 20
Location: Northern Suburbs of Sydney

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by Espresso »

Ken, is it too late to remove the candles now in Sydney?....I have a large black pine that i want to start training and need to reduce the size.
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
Posts: 12289
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by kcpoole »

Espresso wrote:Ken, is it too late to remove the candles now in Sydney?....I have a large black pine that i want to start training and need to reduce the size.
I would suspect you would be fine to start now. Remember this process is a multi year plan and minor variations will not hurt to start out. Thats what i will be doing

ken
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
User avatar
dennismc
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 90
Joined: November 18th, 2008, 6:52 pm
Favorite Species: Natives, JBP, Cfrepe Myrtle
Bonsai Age: 40
Bonsai Club: Teacher, School of Bonsai
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by dennismc »

Thanks everyone for the comments on the JBP paper.

As requested attached is a photograph of the pine on which the research was done. Its dimensions are approximately 100cm X 110cm x70com. Definitely now a 2 man bonsai. Thirty five years in training from a 2 year old seedling supplied by David Rich.

The photograph is a few years old but does give an idea of the tree.

Haveaniceday

Dennis Mc
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
anttal63
Bend me twist me
Bend me twist me
Posts: 5325
Joined: November 11th, 2008, 12:32 pm
Bonsai Age: 14
Bonsai Club: MYCLUB
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by anttal63 »

thanks for that dennis. certainly a very vigorous tree you have there. :D 8-)
Regards Antonio:
User avatar
Bretts
Bonsai Philosopher
Bonsai Philosopher
Posts: 6670
Joined: November 14th, 2008, 11:04 pm
Favorite Species: carpinus jbp
Bonsai Age: 12
Location: Jervis Bay NSW
Has thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by Bretts »

Hey KC and Dennis. Thanks for the great Info I will be comming back to this I am sure.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
alexx_2010
Posts: 1
Joined: January 7th, 2010, 1:04 am
Bonsai Age: 0
Location: Egypt

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by alexx_2010 »

Remember this process is a multi year plan and minor variations.
The photo is great show the hard work that have done.
User avatar
Chris H
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 399
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 10:15 pm
Favorite Species: All of them.
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: School of bonsai
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by Chris H »

Just found this one.
Thanks KC and Dennis. This is a great post.
Ive been starting to research what I am doing right and wrong with my JBP and once again the value of this forum is proved.
Aikido keeps me rolling; Bonsai keeps me still.
User avatar
LZRD84
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 88
Joined: October 2nd, 2009, 1:59 pm
Favorite Species: ficus
Bonsai Age: 1
Bonsai Club: NBBA
Location: Sydney

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by LZRD84 »

great post!
User avatar
bodhidharma
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 5007
Joined: August 13th, 2009, 1:14 pm
Favorite Species: English Elm
Bonsai Age: 24
Bonsai Club: goldfields
Location: Daylesford, Victoria....Central Highlands
Been thanked: 11 times
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by bodhidharma »

Awsome Post, I have been playing with jbp's for a long time and this will help immensely. I am with Ant i think it will have to be tinkered with to fit Melbourne conditions. We dont see many black pines displayed here and i hope this thread changes that, after all, they are supposed to be the king of Bonsai. (pines anyway). I have had some success with the principles set down by Kihachio Kamiya who did an extensive article in international Bonsai. It was called developing short needles on jbp's . I love em but i think aussies have a little bit of hesitation working on them. I will show a tree on a different thread as i dont want to hijack this one :roll:
"Advice is rarely welcome, and the one's who need it the most welcome it the least"
User avatar
kcpoole
Perpetual Learner
Perpetual Learner
Posts: 12289
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
Favorite Species: Maple
Bonsai Age: 15
Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Contact:

Re: Growing Japanese Black Pine in Sydney

Post by kcpoole »

Thanks Bodhi :-)
Be nice to see some awesome JBP coming along

Ken
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
Post Reply

Return to “Tips, Techniques, Maintenance and Advice”