AusBonsai

i like archies sketch. i have a similar tree (cedar) that annoyed me until i took to it with bike tube, heavy wire, a tilt, some graceful movement and counter balance bend before the canopy. now semi literati/ informal and i'm very happy with it. tried not to get too bendy and contrived with lower 2/3 of trunk' just slow elegant line leading your eye gently up to points of interest (nice bend,floating branches, form of canopy). i think its easy to bend too much for the sake of it and lose sight of something nicer. Some may argue its not truly literati and thats o.k. too but look at John Naka's sketches.(and nature)

Hi Archie these were collected 2 years ago and at the time i thought why bother . Placed in a training box 500mmx 500mm and grown in scoria and pine bark .Repotted into this training pot 12 months ago with the same mix . Power feed with Tomatoe Starter fertilizer approx '7-7-7 every 2 weeks and watered daily over this summer .Excellent free drainage with my mix .The foliage has quadrupled {no shari} and now they will be trimmed and wired with hook and hold ,a method i use on the majority of my trainers and always on Cedars .Hope this helps .Cheers

Wow Alpine nice Cedars' where do you find trees like that to collect here in Oz. Lucky

Well against most peoples thoughts and ideas I have had a crack at the new style for my cedar, you are right Alpine the cedar was left in the corner of the garden and out in the open and had become quite waterlogged. It is now eating a stable diet of Seasol and Bloom Booster (Manutec) and the soil is now draining freely with my new soil mix. Let's not get into soil mixes we all now where that leads to hahaha

I had wrapped the trunk in grafting tape as I didnt have any old bike tubes lying about then covered the grafting tape in well not quite raffia but hessian enough to protect the bark. I then double wrapped with 4.5mm wire down to 3mm and 2mm at the apex. I think its a much more interesting tree from what I started with now lets see if it gets over its shock treatment.


Well I guess you are all probably pretty anxious to see my progress...........
Old Front Another Front pic

Hi Archie ,they were definately not good trees ,yes collected cedars but thats about it .They will become good trees in another 3-5 years maybe ? !..Back to yours .Mate a really do like the tree now ,you've have done a pearler job .Couple of points if i may , With older Atlas Cedars they have to hold there stand/shape for a couple of years or they straighten themselves out at least 80% within one season ,this means you have to unwrap the wire and reset .

It can take up to 5 years to set an older trunk compared with a seedling . If you wrap the tree with bicycle tube which is a {petroleum bases product} or any product that become airtight the trunk and bark cant breath .If moisture was to penitrate you would probably creating fungus ,it cant be seen until it too late .Grafting tape is ok for a few months if no moisture get in Kaos if it does . Began to do the styling on those shockers i posted will post it upas a simple progression .Cheers Alpine

Hey Alpine thanks for the info as I am very junior when it comes to cedars, like I think I mentioned earlier its been sitting in the corner for a while and needed somethin done with it, I actually bought it a few years ago when my dog croaked it.
Must be a bit of a softy a sentimental tree really didn't want to do anything with it but now is time to make it new again.

That is way better Archie, Alpine is correct with his advice on setting. I have one i have been working and here is a tip for Cedars. It helps if you tap the bark with a small hammer, gently, it bruises the bark and callouses it a little which helps it set quicker. Now i have only done this on one tree and it worked on the trunk but i have done it on an older tree's branches and it worked extremely well. Unfortunately i tapped a little to HARD and the branches calloused a bit but it did work. I like the way this one is going Archie, good work.

alpineart wrote:
If you wrap the tree with bicycle tube which is a {petroleum bases product} or any product that become airtight the trunk and bark cant breath .If moisture was to penitrate you would probably creating fungus ,it cant be seen until it too late .Grafting tape is ok for a few months if no moisture get in Kaos if it does . Began to do the styling on those shockers i posted will post it upas a simple progression .Cheers Alpine

So how should we wrap ? I have used Raffia in the past and it seemed ok at first but then it rotted away and I think I got a few bugs that were happy eating it.

Bit late now, but didn't you think about leaving the low branches to increase the taper of the lower trunk?

Hartos wrote:

alpineart wrote:
If you wrap the tree with bicycle tube which is a {petroleum bases product} or any product that become airtight the trunk and bark cant breath .If moisture was to penitrate you would probably creating fungus ,it cant be seen until it too late .Grafting tape is ok for a few months if no moisture get in Kaos if it does . Began to do the styling on those shockers i posted will post it upas a simple progression .Cheers Alpine

So how should we wrap ? I have used Raffia in the past and it seemed ok at first but then it rotted away and I think I got a few bugs that were happy eating it.[/quote

I dont wrap never have never will .If i use a band-aid it keeps the dirt out but i doesn't do much for the skin it covers .What happens when you have a plaster cast fitted, the top layer of skin dies and stinks like shari .

Councils used to use rudder tubes pieces 20-30 years ago to hold their staked trees after planting now they realize the point that touches the bark dies , tree becomes ring barked {petroleum based product }if i was to apply wire i would use {coated wire}for Cedars , maples, Zelkova's etc, large diameter electrical cable is ideal , with minimal strands as the more strands the less holding power .

I use Hook and Hold wiring , shade cloth slings ,trunk blocks or the Alpine truss method for manipulating trunks .I have used 1500 kg ratchet die downs to bend trunks.Methods i've invented , improved ,added to and tested .Im not dictated too by what methods i use , I'm not into making "Pretty boy" trainers be it Pines , Maples or Cedars .

You answered you second query just DONT allow it to get wet ,then the bug wont have a nice moist bed to rest their heads .Put it out during the day , bring it under cover at night .Yes its a pain in the ass thats only 1 reason i dont wrap trunks . raffia will deteriorate , usually slower where the pressure of the wire is so remove the sections where the wire isn't touching

If i wrap roots for root over rock i use various sizes of natural string , it holds very well easy to work with and in 6-12 months it has composted away .No need to unwrap , plastics , rubbers or what ever people use to do root wraps .Hope this helps . Cheers Alpineart

Much better Archie. I think you mightve found the bonsai within

cheers Regan

This is 7.5 cm at base. it was dead straight and with gentle bending easy to achieve. The bend at the top was used to close up a long section with no braches or buds. it has long way to go and may get tilted to the right to change the direction to right. anyway i enjoy it much more now. Then bike tubing has given me nice bark texture on radiata in the past so i will just wait and see if good idea or no. The best part of the tree may be the Trevor Wheeler pot......

oops, i'm new at this

During a demo at the recent annual show of the Weston Creek Bonsai Group. Mick Balzary showed another method of trunk bending that can stay on for a long time and isn't as traumatic for the tree as conventional wiring. He laid two heavy gauge lengths of wire along the trunk, on each side, and fastened them in place with cable ties. Then he bent the wires and the trunk came with them. See below a Scots pine "before" and "after".

Lisae