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Re: Some Japanese trees.....
Posted: May 21st, 2009, 11:44 pm
by anttal63
Jow wrote:
Make sure if you are growing tridents that you lift them and do heavy root work on them. Nebari is the major feature of tridents. I will make a post when i get around to it on how most of the shohin tridents are grown soon....
heavy root work my speciality, wont be long now next couple of weeks trunk chopm and repot about july-august.
Radiatas should work fine, the only down side might be needle length, but at the rate they grow i am sure a medium sized tree would be fast to grow, especially in the ground!
my feeling exactly, i dont think we should stop at shohin, good chuhin needed here too!
As for Shimpaku, i am pretty sure they are Juniperus chinensis. Shimpaku means something like `juniper` in Japanese. There are many types of Shimpaku, some with sparce big foliage (good for big trees) and then versions like `itoigawa` which has small tightly compact foliage (good for shohin) I am pretty sure we have some good material to at least take cuttling from. Make sure you look for foliage characteristics that you are after. I think Tony has a good chinensis to take cutting from, nice and compact growth. So we at least have the starting material.
i will start wiring all the shoots now while on the trees so in spring when we take cuttings there is already movement. this method should speed things along? 
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 21st, 2009, 11:53 pm
by anttal63
its funny how things come around a full circle
there was a reason why i started this hobby with a passion to grow my own and now there is even more reason why i am still passionate to grow my own.
eveybody should at least have a go. some will succeed some might fail, but for the good of australian bonsai have a go.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 7:56 am
by teejay
This is an interesting thread and I hope it continues with tidbits of info for growing our own stock.
Last spring while looking around at nurserys I decided that the only way to obtain good bonsai material for a reasonable price (and the only way to learn the process from beginning to end) was to start them yourself from scratch. After this realisation I resolved to collect seed and start taking cuttings in a major way. Mainly I've collected japanese and trident maple seeds, although the trident maple seeds I've picked up are the tiny leafed, tiny internode variety used primarily for bonsai. You don't see these much around here. I think with maples etc...in Oz the only way to get the nebari you need (without years of correcting) you've got to do it all yourself. And it's fun anyway!
Aside from these I'm looking at doing heaps of natives. So it's maples and natives for me. I don't go in for
junipers much, though they look fun.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 8:37 am
by anttal63
tee you have hit the nail on the head. the only way to have excellent stock here is for our generation to get our head around starting it from scratch and doing it properly. regardless of wether we are doing exotic or native. i for one have resolved to this concept. as much as i still want to get my hands on good established trees they will be far and few between. most still need alot of correction to become excellent and in my opinion is why they're not worth the money. again i stress money is not the problem.
buying pre bonsai nursery stock is a great option if affordable but we have to get out of the instant bonsai phase and be prepared to chop and grow on.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 8:58 am
by Milehigh_7
Jow wrote:Good to see people getting excited! Its spurring me on to take more pics of different methods... Ill post about Shari creation tomorrow.... its another easy technique that achieves great results.
Jow, Thank you so much for posting such wonderful information! The techniques are explained clearly and one feels encouraged to try things. What a good teacher you are.
I am also very much impressed by the spirit of working together for the good of Australian Bonsai that you all exhibit. It is an example for us in the US to follow. You are all always so helpful and encouraging. Thanks again everyone, this post (hopefully more to come) make this site one of the best around!
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 9:17 am
by DavidN
Joe,
Look forward to reading more about producing shohin tridents as that is my aim with tridents I have in the gournd. They make brilliant shohin and smaller sized trees. Wouldn't mind having a few large ones but that will come in time.
I have the space at home to be planting out stock for growing so this thread is great to figure out what needs to be done. So for me its going to be tridents and crazy trunk junipers.
Have to go a collect some trident seeds. Now is the best time, just need to find a tree on the street somewhere!!!
David N
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 11:22 am
by ketutg
Wow what a great thread.
I'm going to go out on the weekend to see if i can buy some shimpaku starters.
problem is most are already a few years old...
Wiring trees early in development definitely makes a lot of difference.
Jow, looking forward to your post on sharis
i'm definitely more interested about growing my own stock now.
just wish i had a time machine lol
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 2:54 pm
by kcpoole
I already have some trees in the ground, so am already on the way
I might have to make a rip to rays t see what starters he has to put some more in too
he has lots of $3 Starter trees of all sorts of types
Thanks Jow an dI totally ageree
Ken
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 3:05 pm
by Asus101
You know you can use other juniper types too? they just need some flex. Try Squamata's (The more it has on the end of its name, the less flex it will have...), horizontalis, shore junipers ect ect. They just need to have some decent flex.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 4:06 pm
by DavidN
Here is a use for old/defunct CDs/DVDs that no longer work etc. I was able to get my hands on a whole stack of old software CD's and thought of a possible use for them.
One thing I tried with seedling tridents last spring was when I root pruned them I threaded the seedling through the middle hole of 3 CD's held together. This would act like a torniqet and would hopefully ground layer the seeding and caused a nice flat nebari to form. I'll be leaving them for a couple of years before I lift them though but is another experiment I thought was worth the effort.
David N
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 6:18 pm
by Milehigh_7
DavidN wrote:Here is a use for old/defunct CDs/DVDs that no longer work etc. I was able to get my hands on a whole stack of old software CD's and thought of a possible use for them.
One thing I tried with seedling tridents last spring was when I root pruned them I threaded the seedling through the middle hole of 3 CD's held together. This would act like a torniqet and would hopefully ground layer the seeding and caused a nice flat nebari to form. I'll be leaving them for a couple of years before I lift them though but is another experiment I thought was worth the effort.
David N
I am trying this exact thing with a crape myrtle. We will see what happens! I did it back in January and the little guy has put on quite a lot of new growth. I won't even check on it for at least another year.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 6:20 pm
by Asus101
check the bonsai4me website for results on CD's
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 6:27 pm
by Joel
Thanks Jow, great stuff here!
David N, great minds think alike, as I am also trying the cd thing, but with a single cd, not 3. I will let you know how it goes.
JayC
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 6:30 pm
by Asus101
http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopi ... bonsai.htm but using a board..... same process, will have the same result.
Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries
Posted: May 22nd, 2009, 7:13 pm
by Joel
Old cd's, or computer discs that contain outdated programs, or even cd's that come with mags etc are often thrown out into landfill. This gives them a bit of a use. They already have a hole in them, and should be very easy to find. They also minimize evaporation of water under the trunks, just make sure you have a large pot with very free draining mix. Id save good timber for something else.
JayC