How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Share your success stories about defoliation, bare rooting and anything else relating to maintaining healthy bonsai.
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MoGanic
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by MoGanic »

bonsaisensation wrote:
MoGanic wrote:
Hopefully Tien can shoot a couple shots of Tridents he's worked on!

Mo


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here you go Mo
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as you can see, the netting method produced the initial couple of bends into the trunk without wiring. and that is about it.
to grow a good bonsai from them, still requires wiring the rest of the trunk, cutting back to back buds to produce taper then wire the new lead for movements.
it does save a lot of time wiring and unwiring the little seedlings, when you have to do hundreds of the them.

here are some desert ash
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they are wired when they are match stick thickness. as you can see, it produced very similar result both netting and wiring.
i guess netting has a slight advantage as the seedlings can grow into rather unusual twist and bends on their own. and they are right down low on the trunk.

and what you are not seeing is the work done to the roots. i supposed they are what you'd called "trade secrets". :whistle: :whistle:


regards


Tien
Thanks Tien!

Trident no. 2, does the trunk bend over itself at the base?

Cheers,
Mo


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MoGanic
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by MoGanic »

CoGRedeMptioN wrote:
MoGanic wrote:Trees obviously don't secretly wire themselves in the middle of the night, so the way they bend is vastly different and produces different effects than anything we can achieve by hand. Pretty sure they multiply cells in certain areas (outside of a bend) and stop production of cells on the inside to create the bend.
This process is called 'Phototropism' - first a chemical (or hormone if you like) is released on the opposite side to the sun light which elongates those cells (later they divide) while the remaining cells stay unchanged..

This process is somewhat different but aids the twisted growth ...


Cheers
Elmar
Ps that is amazing. Really astounding how plants are able to "bend" themselves to be able to obtain more light.

Cheers,
Mo


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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by treeman »

Jow wrote:Its not just conifers that benefit from this technique. Deciduous, evergreen leaf trees and natives can also come up well as small twisted trees and often develop much more quickly.
IMG_2046.jpg
IMG_2047.jpg

It's the right time of year to start thinking about planting seed for next seasons stock. I am planting a handful of varieties to try and those interested should make preparations of their own for next season.

Another technique i am going to try this season which may cut down on some wiring time is the use of some sort of netting over the pot to create low bends.

http://jesuscuevasbonsai.blogspot.com.a ... ambre.html An interesting article and the rest of his blog is also worth a read.

We will see how it works out.

Joe
I think we should not get too carried away with this bending. Yes it is a good technique and I certainly do it but just bending the whole seedling without giving any thought to taper will result in a sub-standard tree like the one in the second picture which too me looks very unnatural. We need to continue to practice leader replacement even though it takes longer.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jow »

treeman wrote:
I think we should not get too carried away with this bending. Yes it is a good technique and I certainly do it but just bending the whole seedling without giving any thought to taper will result in a sub-standard tree like the one in the second picture which too me looks very unnatural. We need to continue to practice leader replacement even though it takes longer.

I agree, taper is certainly a consideration although setting the bends early gives you something to work with over a straight piece of stock.

I can understand how it is not everyone's taste but really I like the last tree. Just for interests sake, it was entered in Gafu ten last year. HAVE A LOOK HERE and i think in among other styles it adds an interesting point of difference.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by MoGanic »

Jow wrote:
treeman wrote:
I think we should not get too carried away with this bending. Yes it is a good technique and I certainly do it but just bending the whole seedling without giving any thought to taper will result in a sub-standard tree like the one in the second picture which too me looks very unnatural. We need to continue to practice leader replacement even though it takes longer.

I agree, taper is certainly a consideration although setting the bends early gives you something to work with over a straight piece of stock.

I can understand how it is not everyone's taste but really I like the last tree. Just for interests sake, it was entered in Gafu ten last year. HAVE A LOOK HERE and i think in among other styles it adds an interesting point of difference.
I agree, having bends early on is great for any tree that isn't destined to be a Broom or Formal Upright style tree. But I certainly wouldn't be doing this to 100% of my deciduous stock (assuming I had deciduous stock seedlings I was growing on).

I wonder if the shade-cloth/netting option would work for Pine seedlings?

Mo
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

And some serious twists (not mine)
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

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Some more crazy wiring (not mine)
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How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Elmar »

Love the last pic, Neli.
Somehow they just grab my attention!

Is that a Literati style?


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Elmar
Last edited by Elmar on June 16th, 2015, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers
Elmar
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

Yes literati, but remember to make a good literati lots of artistic ability is needed.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

Mo Ganic here is a tiny trident I wired and grew.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

Hope to grow a massive tree even if it takes 10 years.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

I like my trees with lots of movement and taper.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Andrew F »

Here's my attempt with some cheap JBP seedlings, No real plan outside of a repot into pure diatomite and LOTS of sun/water/ferts.
On the fence about letting the wire bite in, I know from experience it aids immensely in fattening the trunks up but then you are left with a fairly un-natural shari line, barbers pole style deadwood. This coupled with Grants root wrap technique should make for interesting material within 5 years.

Image
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I've tried this before using a batch of varigated benji seedlings that have been in the ground for the last 6 months showing lots of gains, If i decide to lift it this season I can post the photo's. But if anyone has the room, I would do a huge batch of this pretzel style and throw them in the ground for 4-5 years of unabated growth outside of profile pruning.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Neli »

I can not figure out what you did? He he he! Maybe to try fuse them, or make trunks from serious bends or try exposed root style made from trunks?
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Andrew F »

Yes.
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