How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Share your success stories about defoliation, bare rooting and anything else relating to maintaining healthy bonsai.
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Jow
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jow »

I took a pic today that shows how a shari can increase trunk width in one dimension. Look at the pic below and compare the width of the trunk whee it enters the soil to the sharied are above.
IMG_5604.JPG
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by John Henry »

Makes my Shimpku look like crap
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Bretts »

How close to the 3 month limit will you get Jow. It must be close. Glad you found time to chat with us :D
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jow »

soltan wrote:How close to the 3 month limit will you get Jow. It must be close. Glad you found time to chat with us :D
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Andrew_Davies »

This is a fantastic thread! I am now on the hunt for as many juniper starters as i can find. I am particularly enjoying the shari creation information. Thank you very much Jow.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by mudlarkpottery »

My apologies for not getting back to this interesting thread sooner (my 83yr old mother broke her arm just before Mother's day). I really would like an answer to my question about holes in tiles (page3). I'm not being pedantic here as a few people have asked me to make clay discs without holes. Chris Alnut has spoken to me about using terracotta and making sure it's still porous when fired and I've done several tests with different types of clay and colours. These disks are approx 200mm dia and thicker towards the middle.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Bretts »

Penny Asus answered that one for you.
Penny the idea in this case is to force the tree to layer evenly while growing in the ground. The tile under it is to stop growth going down. In this case we want the growth to go down as fast as possible as the more lower growth the more top growth there is.
That bonsai4me link should explain it more.
This is the link that he notes
http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopi ... bonsai.htm

I first saw this in Peter Adams Bonsai with Japanese Maples. He suggests using holes around the outside of the plate as well so they can be used to tie roots into position. The idea of using plates is that when the tree is ready you can just smash the plate to remove tree.
I would think you could cut the tree of if using a steel plate but unsure if any one has gotten that far with steel?
Last edited by Bretts on May 31st, 2009, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by mudlarkpottery »

I did read Asus's answer and have seen that technique in Bonsai Today as well. I was used for cuttings too.You don't have to have holes in the tiles to obtain horizontal growth. By sitting the tree on the tile, it will force the roots to grow horizontally and all the tree's energy will go to one layer instead of two and you cut off the downward growing roots gradually. You'll have more choice of roots to choose from when refining them and less disturbance.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Asus101 »

mudlarkpottery wrote:I did read Asus's answer and have seen that technique in Bonsai Today as well. I was used for cuttings too.You don't have to have holes in the tiles to obtain horizontal growth. By sitting the tree on the tile, it will force the roots to grow horizontally and all the tree's energy will go to one layer instead of two and you cut off the downward growing roots gradually. You'll have more choice of roots to choose from when refining them and less disturbance.
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You dont need the holes if you already have the nebari.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jow »

The idea behind the hole is that as the trunk fills the hole up it hits the edges and begins to layer itself, hopefully producu\ing a prefect flat and fine nebari. As this nebari is formed after the trunk has some girth the roots are finer and more ballanced. Often when placing a tile under a tree with no holes you get one or two roots that become dominant.

Both methods are valid.

The other usefull method is to have a hole in the center and 5 or so holes surounding this one evenly. place cuttings/ seedlings in each hole. as they grow they will layer new roots which in turn will fuse. You can then cut off the surounding trunks and leave only the central one (which will now have a very big plate like nebari.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by mudlarkpottery »

Many thanks. I have enjoyed reading your article, Jow (and , of course, those pots in another thread)
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by kcpoole »

mudlarkpottery wrote:My apologies for not getting back to this interesting thread sooner (my 83yr old mother broke her arm just before Mother's day). I really would like an answer to my question about holes in tiles (page3). I'm not being pedantic here as a few people have asked me to make clay discs without holes. Chris Alnut has spoken to me about using terracotta and making sure it's still porous when fired and I've done several tests with different types of clay and colours. These disks are approx 200mm dia and thicker towards the middle.
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Hi Penny
I was repotting some trees today and on of them was my "Holey Ron" of Crepe Myrtle Cuttings

2 years ago I threaded 4 cuttings thru holes in a tile and potted them up. The theory is that they will spread out above the tile and make a really wide Root base when they combine. After y0ou have the base you want, then cut the roots off under the tile and take it off.
Then treat the upper tree as any bonsai and style as desired.
Here are some photos I took to illustrate
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jow »

HERE

I just watched episode 2 of Lindsay Farrs video series and at about the 2.30min mark it goes into quite a bit of detail on how to grow the twisted shimpaku junipers. Just remember to wire a lot of movement into the trunks early to exaggerate the future shari's movement.
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by Jamie »

i was just reading this last night thinking it was a finished topic but geting up this morning and seeing this i was amazed that its been reignited. this is definately something i am going to be trying and i think it will be a method i will use on the fused juniper i have.

thanks jow.

regards jamie :D
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Re: How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries

Post by ozzy »

I think this thread has reinforced what I already feared all along ... forget about collecting, forget about nursery stock, the only way to get a first class bonsai is to start from scratch, so its back to the drawing board I guess :(
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