Apple tree seeds , advice for a nooby :)

[Red-maple]

Captivated over the many years I've finally decided to attempt to grow my own bonsai from seed. I do eventually plan on buying Japanese red maple tree seeds but for now I'm attempting to grow something else. At the moment there germinating, slowly sprouting and was just wondering what other fruity tree's may also work as bonsais and do apple trees even make good bonsais? I've got a hot box ready for them and in the next week or so id like to maybe throw in a few lemon seeds, or maybe even an orange. Any advice for my adventure

[Josh]

Firstly, I hope your young.
Secondly, I hope your patient.
Thirdly, I hope your young.
Fourthly, I hope your patient.

That being said. There are lots of fruit trees that make good bonsai. Plums, crab apple, cherry, quince, just to name a few. It will take a long time to grow from seed snd if you can get them in the ground for a few years it will help to quicken the process although will still be a long process. Still there is something extra special about doing it your self.

Josh.

[Timothy]

Hi I'm in cape town. Apple seeds need stratification. I placed mine in some damp river sand,into a sealed plastic bag and into the fridge. This was middle april. In july I took a peek,and they started to sprout in the bag. Planted them out,and since then potted them up. Had 75 percent success. Hope it helps. Btw. It was golden delicious seeds from an apple I ate. Josh is right. Takes long,but it's cool.

[Red-maple]

Thanks for the reply's I was sort of expecting to get trolled being a nooby and all

Im 22, reasonably young and had always thought of doing bonsais for my retirement days but I couldn't resist after buying a kit from the Australian geographic store. I wanted a video and read up a little on how to germinate and the advice I was given was to place the seeds in a damp cloth seal them in an air tight bag and leave them in the fridge for 4-6weeks. Last I checked all of them 5 seeds that I had (from an apple I also ate ) were starting to sprout so im hoping that I can plant them soon

[alpineart]

Hi Red Maple , most bonsai material is grown for the small foliage or ability to reduce the size of the foliage . Normal apples will grow from seed however the fruit is one area that is almost impossible to reduce in size so they must become 2 man trees in order to have the fruit in proportion . There is a large variety of crab apples available which grow well from seed , branch cuttings and root cutting .

Citrus is another that has larger fruit unless you go for cumquat or small manderin . Seed grown material doesn't necessarily have the same characteristics as the parent tree .

Cheers Alpineart

[thoglette]

Firstly, do keep growing stuff from seed. You can get good results in five to ten years.

More to the point, the bonsai world needs more good stock (and less sticks in pots).

Seed grown material doesn't necessarily have the same characteristics as the parent tree .

Here's the rub. If the parent is a commercial, grafted variety there's a risk that the seedlings will be weak.
But what germinates may or may not represent the parent.

Keep at it. And do some research on growing stock

[Red-maple]

I wasn't planning on allowing the apple to fully on grow the tree and i haven't read about branch cutting although today i did invest in an Chinese elm seedling from bunnings that i wanted to learn on and hopefully not kill it.

5 - 10 years before i can see some good results at least i know that it'll be worth it

[kcpoole]

Good Stuff Red!
Need lots of Younguns getting involved a growing stock.
Also add Pomegranate to the list

From seed if pushed you can get a nice tree in 5 years, a good one in 10, and 20 will have a Cracker if developed with skill and care. After that time you will still be younger than me

As has been said, depending on the variety may well be good, but many times fruit trees are on graftred stock fo ra reason in that the native roots are weak and the tree will struggle.
keep trying tho as many new varieties are from varied seed stock.

Ken

[time8theuniverse]

Welcome Red-Maple.

It's not a crazy idea to grow your trees from seed. You might struggle to wait around to have one to work on while you wait. Its a lot better than buying a tree in a pot from the B word. With your elm I would suggest taking it out of the pot and slip potting it into a much bigger pot, all of the 2 fruit tree I got from the Bunnings had terrible root system that have taken 18months to get healthy. But its an elm and should put on growth quickly.

I have a peach from a seed that started growing in the compost 4 years. It's not to bad now, I am working on developing the branches. It's not photo worthy yet but you have to start some where. There are also a fair few seedlings I have high hopes for in the future.

I'm only 28, so I have my tree retirement plant started.

Clubs, shows and sales are the best place to look at taking some short cuts to picking up a more developed tree to learn more skills while you wait for the apples. Or there is the feral trees on tge side of the road to dig up.

[shibui]

There is no problem with growing fruit trees from seed for bonsai.

As has been said, depending on the variety may well be good, but many times fruit trees are on graftred stock fo ra reason in that the native roots are weak and the tree will struggle.
keep trying tho as many new varieties are from varied seed stock.

This is not the reason fruit trees are grafted Ken. In many cases fruit trees grown from seed will exceed the grafted trees in vigour. Granny Smith apple seedlings are regularly used as a rootstock for crab apples because they are very vigorous. We often graft fruit trees (particularly apple and pear) onto weaker rootstocks to produce smaller, more manageable trees.
reason 1 for grafting fruit trees is that seedlings, being the result of sexual propagation (ie they have a mother and a father) will have a different combination of genes and will be different from the tree they came from (the mother)
reason 2 for grafting is that we can manipulate the size and pest/disease resistance of the tree by using selected rootstocks.

A couple of other interesting facts this thread has reminded me of-
1. Commercial apples are stored in coolrooms so later in the season the seeds in the fruit have already been stratified inside the fruit. I have eaten fruit where the seeds were germinating inside the apple!
2. Most citrus have an unusual characteristic -- they can produce trees that are genetically identical to the parent through a natural process in seed development called nucellar embryony. You will often get several seedlings grow from a single seed. These are usually natural clones - exact copies of the mother plant. Apparently the seed starts as a fertilised embryo but then nucellar embryos start to grow and grow faster and crowd out the fertilised one so when the seed germinates, all the seedlings are clones of the mother plant.

[Red-maple]

Kcpoole thanks for the suggestion ill have to try pomegranate seeds also later on, I do enjoy eating them so why not attempt to grow a miniature version of one

time8theuniverse I know all about trying to start some where, I did get a little impatient and did in away want to have something to pay around with which is why I bought that Chinese elm. Im planning on re-potting it (VERY first time doing so) and im just reading up about soils at the moment, its interesting I always thought soil was just... dirt.

I've spoken to a few people selling bonsai's and if I hear of any shows then ill definitely have to go.

Lastly shibui I've heard of apples that are being sold that are over a year old but ive never heard of them germinating like that... Kinda makes me wish I had one of those apples a few weeks back!

[Jabobo]

Hi guys, I thought I would ask a question here instead of a new,thread.

I recently germinated some apple seeds and the seedlings are currently growing in those little seedling trays. They are currently about 15-20cm in hight so I need to plant them into larger pots soon. I was wondering if you guys could tell me if I should cut the tap root before repotting or just leave as is. If so, where do you cut?

Cheers,

Jacob

[Scott Roxburgh]

Hi Jacob,

Post a pic or two of the seedlings so we can see what we are working with, but my instinct is telling me that you need to wire them now while the wood is still soft.

What size tree are you after?

Scott

[Scott Roxburgh]

These are crabapple but your can do the same with Apples

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/fwnt1093/folder/462691.html

[Jabobo]

Hi Scott,

Here you go


I got the tape measure out. The biggest one is 20cm, the smallest 10cm

In terms of size, I haven't really made up my mind on that. I guess I have 12 seedlings so I can get aim for a variety of sizes. I would however like to try a few different styles, semi cascade and informal upright. I just am trying to get some experience with how to germinate, and they grow and style them. (at the beginning of the year I had never really had much success or drive to keep anything alive)

Thanks for the link as well, definitely a few ideas for smaller trees.

Cheers

Jacob