A quick question on verigated

[paul smedley]

Hi all.
A very quick question that i think will make people roll their eyes at me but here goes.
Verigated plants. Opinions?
Am i right in saying that it is a big NO? i have a few growing as plain pot plants and one has actually reverted back to normal. If the answer is a definite NO then i can play and practice with these before i get to the ones that will become real bonsai.
From what i hear they are weaker than plain plants and prone to more issues?
I think i am right but needed to check.
Cheers P

[alpineart]

Hi Paul , mate take it from a rebel without a cause . There are no rules only guidelines , you can follow them like a lemming or step outside the the comfort zone and try anything .

Cheers Alpineart

[KIRKY]

There is no reason not to use variegated plants. Some say they are weaker therefore don’t make good trees. i would think that would be more species hardiness. No real truth to substantiate that claim. Others state that due to a lot of trimming /cutting back they could revert to being non variegated. Personally see no harm in that either if you have a great looking tree does it matter if it reverts? Personally I am not a fan because again pending on species to me they look like they are diseased. I have a Celtis that is variegated I got it bare rooted thinking it was green.Lovely tree in winter hate it in summer. Just personal taste.

Cheers
Kirky

[baldtwitlion]

Hi Paul
I have a variegated Grevillia





It hasn’t caused me any problems as yet
i dont know if it is going to flower as it hasn’t done so yet so thats my only concern


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[shibui]

Variegated Serissa is often grown as bonsai. Could be called 'Snowflake'?
I also once had a variegated Chinese elm. A variety called 'Frosty' with very thin white margins round the leaves so you could only just call it variegated.
i have recently collected a green and gold variegated euonymus from a garden. The green and gold combination looks better than the white I think.
Otherwise I'm with Kirky. I don't really like the look of them much in bonsai pots.

[paul smedley]

Thank you all for your opinions.

I prefer those much more than Rules personally. It appears that it is really in the "Eye of the beholder" as i have definitely heard the "Oh my God NO" and then your opinions so I will keep him as cannon fodder for practice.

There is so much here to go through when you are a noob and it is so invaluable. I hope you will forgive the questions that are going to come up from me as i learn to progress through. I am very much a conversational learner by default and prefer to check guidelines then go off and do things rather than be told to read a book so thanks so much again. Soooo much knowledge held in this arena by you all.

Cheers

[MJL]

....I am very much a conversational learner by default and prefer to check guidelines then go off and do things rather than be told to read a book so thanks so much again. Soooo much knowledge held in this arena by you all.

Cheers

Hey Paul,
Based on that quote above... and after isolation, I recommend you join a club - if you haven't already. Nothing like having face to face conversations with experienced people at a club or two. Clubs, this forum and the odd book are great reference points. You'll sift through various advice and end up finding 'your truth/style' re: bonsai in the combination of information channels.
Cheers,
M

[paul smedley]

....I am very much a conversational learner by default and prefer to check guidelines then go off and do things rather than be told to read a book so thanks so much again. Soooo much knowledge held in this arena by you all.

Cheers

Hey Paul,
Based on that quote above... and after isolation, I recommend you join a club - if you haven't already. Nothing like having face to face conversations with experienced people at a club or two. Clubs, this forum and the odd book are great reference points. You'll sift through various advice and end up finding 'your truth/style' re: bonsai in the combination of information channels.
Cheers,
M

Definitely M.
I will be knocking on my neighbours door once this iso is over for guidance. I think he is in here somewhere but have not chatted to him yet re his awesome bonsai collection. My eyes are going crosseyed with the books that i am reading so a bit of verbal from people is just what i need to get meh head straight... or bent if we are talking bonsai!.
cheers P

[Greg F]

Hi Paul ,
A friend of mine thats been doing bonsai for over 30 years said she was at a bonsai meeting with a master from Japan and a lady that had a beautiful jade trained in a bonsai pot showed the master and he said that its not bonsai only indoor tree. The lady was very disapointed.
I heard this story around 5 years ago and have since then I have grown quite a few jade that im training because I like them regardless. I say if you like it go for it.
You should do what makes you feel good.

Regards
Greg

[paul smedley]

Hi Paul ,
A friend of mine thats been doing bonsai for over 30 years said she was at a bonsai meeting with a master from Japan and a lady that had a beautiful jade trained in a bonsai pot showed the master and he said that its not bonsai only indoor tree. The lady was very disapointed.
I heard this story around 5 years ago and have since then I have grown quite a few jade that im training because I like them regardless. I say if you like it go for it.
You should do what makes you feel good.

Regards
Greg

Hi Greg
Yes, i can udjerstand those that want to be traditionalists having that kind of attitude. It is either an art form in the original sense or it should not be played with. However, as for rules, i am a firm believer in using guidelines instead and innovation can certainly be something that others can train their minds to. I will certainly do what makes me feel good ... well perhaps following a few guidelines along the way but until then
Cheers P

[TimS]

From a personal taste standpoint I don’t grow variegated plants at all, and certainly not as bonsai. Aesthetically I just don’t like them as a general rule, and I find the variegation just doesn’t ever look right for bonsai.

Of course that’s not to say you shouldn’t grow them if you want to or use them to practice with. The ‘Jade Question’ is an ongoing one, between those who firmly believe they have no place in bonsai, and those who will grow anything that takes their fancy and don’t care if it fits into the strictest definitions of Bonsai.

Personally I’m pretty against Jade as bonsai, but why should my or anyone else’s personal opinion stop people from growing what they like. I see a post about jade, I just don’t click on it and comment so as to not spread negativity about or potentially cause someone new to the hobby to be turned off it forever.

In contrast I actually heartily dislike junipers as a whole, which are a foundational and traditional species for bonsai worldwide, so it’s just personal taste at the end of the day as to what you like to grow or want to try. I personally love Ginkgo bonsai, but they are not something many people seriously go in for, or they complain about them being grown in the flame shape only when trying to grow them as a tree shape tends to result in branch dieback in containers.

We aren’t Japanese, but if someone likes the manicured Japanese style then go for it. If you or anyone else likes to use left-of-centre species then go for it! Variety is the spice of life, just where the boundaries of good taste are fall differently for everyone.

[gordonb]

.... I find the variegation just doesn’t ever look right for bonsai.

I must admit, I'm the same ; if their foliage is yellowed, I often think it looks sick (my personal interpretation).
I have seen a couple of variegated junipers [as bonsai] that looked quite good (sorry, Tim) - and I've seen some that make my hands itch and make me feel quite uncomfortable.

Th people I know who seem to like them come from the UK or Europe, where the variations are quite liked as garden plant features - maybe a cultural aspect there, with what has been accepted or even in vogue.