Field Growing Advice

[Loretta]

If I were to plant a few trees in the ground to thicken the trunk and develop good neberi what is the method.
Do I plant and just let them grow rampant or do I keep cutting back at the height I want to achieve and keep them under some sort of control. These will be young trees that just need a couple more years growth.
cheers Loretta

[craigw60]

Hi Loretta, its best to do a bit of prep on the trees before you plant them out especially on the roots. If you plant out a tree with tangled roots then its going to be twice as bad when you dig it up. I usually spend a couple of years preparing my trees for field growing, I put curves in the lower trunk make sure the root system is radial and if possible work out the sacrifice branches. Never just plant out the trees and let them run rampant or you will end up with straight taperless trunks. You need to have sacrifice branches low on the trunk to thicken the lower section and if the root system is radial that will pull out the nebari as well.
The best advice I have ever had for fast growing bonsai is to work on one section of the tree at a time so you gradually move up the tree growing and thickening each section as you go. If you want me to elaborate further just let me know.
Craig

[Jamie]

hi Craig

what you just wrote in a paragraph took me two months to right out for the presentation i did at gympie last weekend!

sorting out nebari is definately key, a good nebari will help pull out the tachiagari (transition from nebari to lower trunk). it also helps to build one section at a time like you say, i generally am working it in thirds at the moment.

1st third is nebari to first brnch, 2nd third is the mid section of the tree from first branch to just below the apex and 3rd section the apex, building a little tree upon the tree

hopefully we have some more opinions on this as it is a very interesting discussion on building a tree whilst in the ground.

also having a plan from the get go is a great idea- think what sort of style, size, taper and movement in mind before you go into the ground

Jamie

[Loretta]

[quote=" If you want me to elaborate further just let me know.
Craig[/quote]

Craig, you've been more than helpful and I now have a clear plan in my head to give it a go. I have read about sacrifice branches etc but wasn't sure about how short you can keep them. I have a couple of crepe myrtles I want to grow on.
thanks and Ill get back to you if I get stuck.
cheers Loretta

You too Jamie....it's like reading a book dealing with you guys, only you cut through all the smalltalk
Loretta

[kcpoole]

Peter Adams Book on Maples goes into quite a bit of detail on how to ground grow trees
the same process mostly applies to all Trees

Ken

[Jamie]

hi loretta

pleasure to try and help

peter adams book is a good reference, also i am pretty sure it was shibui that has turned my thinking on sacrifice branches for broad leaf evergreen and deciduous trees in the sense of sacrifices, you will find that using a lot of smaller sacrifices around the lower trunk will help with girth just as good as one big sacrifice. the good thing about multiple sacrifices is a conveniantly placed one can be used as a new leader

there is a thread about it on tridents which would apply to the crepe myrtle too

jamie

[GavinG]

Grow them looooong to get them thick, and then cut back hard. They don't get thick without length. And plant at a different angle each year, sometimes quite extreme, to allow the Natural Forces to add to your design. (And listen to Lyle Lovett's song of the same name, which is a ripper).

The Japanese will grow hard/cut hard in the ground for five or ten years, just to get a trunk with lots of taper and angles, then cut all the branches off, and develop fine branches where you want them at angles which look good. Much harder to do than say. Deciduous only, of course.

Good luck,

Gavin

[craigw60]

Gavin is so correct some of my sac. branches where nearly 2.5m long this year, also clean off the foliage on the sac. branches in close to the trunk so they are not shading the part on the tree you want to keep. Sometimes I pull them down so they are well clean of the intended trunk.
Craig

[nealweb]

What a brilliant thread! So much valuable info and experience here already I haven't done much ground growing but the thing i always was unsure about is trying to balance leaving a sacrifice to really grow and do some thickening with the size (and maybe ugliness) of the scar you will have when you eventually cut it off. Anyhow, excellent thread, great reading and i am definitely going to try some ground growing now. If any of you have some pictures at hand, of tree's in the ground with sacrifices, or even a progression of growing and cutting etc that would be great to see.
Cheers
neal.

[craigw60]

Neal you don't worry about the scars well tapered trees will always have scaring its part of the process of developing them. They heal up with time and eventually add character to the trunk. If you can position the sac. branches at the back so much the better but it doesn't always work out that way.
Craig

[Loretta]

[quote="nealweb"]What a brilliant thread! So much valuable info and experience here already

Can't agree with you more Neale. There is so much knowledge and experience to tap by being part of this forum. And the best thing is that the members are more than willing to share it. It could so easily be an attitude of "my knowledge is my power and that's why I have the best trees" but there's none of that. Another thing I've noticed is that a pat on the back is always on the ready, and there's nothing like a bit of encouragement to boost your confidence and craft.
A big thank you to all the members, and I love it when you get your teeth into a particular subject.
cheers Loretta

[nealweb]

Here here, very well said Loretta! Today was a great day on ozbonsai
and Craig, thanks for your advice, I needed someone to tell me that.Previously i have been far too quick to cut and not achieved the intended fattening. Next time i will be more patient and less concerned with scars.

cheers all

[shibui]

Beware of planting too deep when field growing if you have already worked to establish a good rootsystem and nebari. My experience with tridents is they just love to put out roots at ground level so when you dig up a few years later the trunk has thickened where the new roots are at ground level and the original rootsystem is useless because of inverse taper. Junipers do this too and I'd expect the crepe myrtle to as well. This tendency can be used to good effect if you have a tree with poor rootsystem. Plant it to the depth where you would lke a new rootsystem, at any suitanle angle then leave it for 2-3 years. Although it doesn't always work as well as well as you'd like, chances are you'll get a vastly improved rootsystem and thicker tree as well.

Let the shoots grow freely to get quick increases in trunk diameter. Shoots from lower on the trunk will obviously thicken the lower part more. Shoots from the top will increase the diameter up the entire lenght of the trunk and can risk losing the taper. If there's only one or 2 shoots growing don't be afraid to prune them hard during summer. They will reshoot multiple shoots almost immediately and keep growing. There's no need to wait for winter to prune

While I often start wit a plan for a tree in the ground the huge changes in size, new leaders emerging, etc means that mostly the plan gets overgrown so now I just work with what I get at the end.

Good luck to all those trying field growing this year.

[Scott Roxburgh]

Let the shoots grow freely to get quick increases in trunk diameter. Shoots from lower on the trunk will obviously thicken the lower part more. Shoots from the top will increase the diameter up the entire lenght of the trunk and can risk losing the taper...

Shibui/Craig,

If I was to chop a 3cm diameter Trident down and then let the new leader grow to 3 cm in diameter would the taper be lost or in your experience would there still be reasonable taper in the tree?

Would the resultant 3 cm diameter in growth be on the chopped trunk as well as the 'new' leader?

It would be interesting to hear your views.

Thanks

Scott.

[shibui]

Scott, normally the entire trunk below the part in question would add the same amount of diameter so a 3cm chopped trunk allowed to grow a 3cm new leader should probably result in a 6cm trunk below the new leader. Problem is that thickening does not always happen evenly around or up and down a trunk - eg trunks thicken more on inside of curves so bends actually 'straighten' as trunks thicken; area where new leader joins old trunk will thicken quicker than leader above so more natural taper results (fortunately )
Also if you have achieved a really good lateral root system the trunk base will thicken more than the trunk above it thus giving better nebari/ tachiagari than a tree with strong vertical roots. Trees with vertical roots generally result in 'telephone pole' trunks with little taper. As Craig said earlier, time spent establishing a lateral rootsystem will usually pay dividends in the end.