AusBonsai

one thing ive noticed about this forum is that when someone posts for advice on their "sticks" there seems to be a couple of people that come out of the woodwork to critisize them for buying a stick. this is the sort of thing i was refering to in my previous post, when your a newbie and someone posts that you should gather your "sticks" and make a fire it dosent help the situation as it dosent take many coments like these to turn someone off bonsai. i agree that a newbie section would be great and i hope it becomes a reality as it wont just help the newbies.

I cannot for the life of me work out why this thread keeps losing its intent

(Giving it a rest.)

To ALL posters and others this thread was never about sticks in Pots it was about healthy stock verses sick stock.

STICKS IN POTS HAVE POTENTIAL, GIVEN THE RIGHT HELP AND GIUDANCE. But if it is unhealthy, as I have said a master piece that is sick, given to a newbie will die.

A healthy tree will last longer and therefore encourage them to pursue the hobby, with the right giudance.
I wish that when I started I had some one to tell me that a stick in a pot will take for ever to make it, and I have a couple still, they have been grown in POTS all the lives.
Then I have stuff where I learned that larger healthy stock leads to what I was after a lot quicker without the heart break of a half dead piece of potential, that did not make it.

An example. I just sold a healthy to tree, I had as a bonsai after( collecting it 8 years ago,) for 6 years, to a friend, who has been growing Bonsai for 8 years, so I thought nothing more of this tree, till I was asked what is wrong. The tree was looking sick. I have this tree here with me to try to get it back to its prize winning glory.

So what I am trying to say is if an experianced grower has trouble with a healthy tree what chance has a newbie with a sick one.

A grumpy old Pup

Hi all,
Nice work Bodhi great way to start the bonsai crawl, because it will make the walk easy and down the right path.

Mud

How about a sticky thread on 'what to look for in a starter tree'
Maybe restricted to a few useful lines of thought from a few experts, rubbishy or unhelpful comments to be deleted out to keep it short and simple.
Categories: health of stock, base diameter and taper, movement, leaf size (some can be reduced, others will always look kinda weird as bonsai) potential for serious cutting, airlayering, division, or carving, suitable species which are easy to grow, ones which backbud easily.

Theres one heap of considerations.
My latest nursery tossout was a Lonicera nitida, box honeysuckle. From a half dead $5 plant in December, I now have: one healthy landscape plant, filling out nicely, Two divisions which will be ready for bonsai after a year or so growing, and 10 cuttings which could grow on longer or could be rather cute shohin fairly soon. My considerations: I knew the plant was actually tough and just having a bad day, so to speak, so no major health issues. Lots of tiny little green buds showed me it was alive and would backbud happily. Some nice trunky bits which I used for the divisions. Very happy with the outcome in less than two months! It is just so relieved to be outta that pot

This is a very good idea Greth and it would be of great benefit to a beginner. I am sure the powers to be are reading and planning. By the way, i always enjoy your positive input on this site

Would be helpful for more than just the absolute newbies. I can pick healthy plants, the artistic considerations aren't too hard to grasp, but what I know about leaf reduction could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a very large crayon! ( So I just go for small leaved species, mostly)

Pup wrote: An example. I just sold a healthy to tree, I had as a bonsai after( collecting it 8 years ago,) for 6 years, to a friend, who has been growing Bonsai for 8 years, so I thought nothing more of this tree, till I was asked what is wrong. The tree was looking sick. I have this tree here with me to try to get it back to its prize winning glory.

So what I am trying to say is if an experianced grower has trouble with a healthy tree what chance has a newbie with a sick one.

A grumpy old Pup

Pup,

This is something I have often heard and in every case, when I have asked a few questions of them, they were never told how to care for it, or didnt want to know!

I too sold a tree to an experienced grower a few years ago, I offered information & advice on the care of this tree but was told "I have been growing bonsai & other plants for over 20yrs...." (IE I know what i am doing & dont need your information) The reality was they had never grown or worked with this particular genus & within 3mths it was DEAD!... I no longer sell any tree to someone unless they have the same type already or are prepared to take advice on its care.

I was given a Ficus natalensis and thinking its a fig I can defoliate no problems...I did... BIG mistake, over half the branchs died & large sections of the trunk as well! Its now making a comeback but I wish i had been told when i got it that it didnt like this treatment!

Matt

Pup wrote: Matt a newbie would not know the difference, whether it has potential or not. A unhealthy tree in a newbies hands is not good whether it has potential or not.

And that is my point!!!!! We need to be teaching the beginners what to look for in terms of potential!!!! The health or otherwise is secondary, as you say a stick in a pot can have potential, ie with lots of years growing on!.. How is that any different to spending a year or 2 getting a tree back up to full health???

Pup wrote: Half dead master pieces, in the hands of a newbie is doomed.
Unless they are good Garedeners like yourself. Which by the majority of questions here they are not. They will struggle to keep it alive therfore produce any thing that resembles a Bonsai, or Penjing.

That is the same assumption as that everyone will kill there first tree, it is not always the case. As for being a good gardener, I am not, however i have learnt more from all those sick trees than all other sources!

Pup wrote: However if you think teaching them to buy half dead stock, because it is cheap thats fine.
What would you do with this it was free, you cannot get cheaper as you have said.

P1070578.JPG

I will however always tell the newbie to buy healthy stock over cheap half dead .
Cheers Pup

What Genus? Species? is it? I have had stumps looking like that sit on my benchs for a year or 2 then suddenly coming back to life ... EG viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6380 just 2 examples of many I could post.

Matt

mickaus wrote:Sorry to hi-jack this just slightly

MattA wrote:R0014883.jpg
What curves!

But with the stock that Matt has labeled with What curves!, would it be possible to add some taper to the trunk without drastic trunk chopping? and if so what methods would be used?

Hey Mick,

The trunk would have to chopped, at the moment the tree stands about 1.5mtrs tall, with the first branching at about 40cm high. Adding taper to the trunk could be done by growing a few low sacrifice branches and putting it in the ground or big grow box for a few years. As the lower branches gain size that will feed back into the trunk below them increasing taper, tho on advanced stock like this its better to just work with the trunk you have, if you want major taper its better to find a tree with it already or grow your own from young stock (this doesnt take long with lillypillys).

Personally i would just chop that trunk below the branching & have the trunk as is. I am not a huge fan of the many trees you see with radical taper (like an inverted ice cream cone or similar) it is almost nonexistant in nature yet for some reason seems to be have become the biggest thing for alot of modern bonsai growers.

Matt

It seems a lot of fashions in bonsai are infected with testosterone, the 'mine is bigger' syndrome, which is more than a bit silly in a miniature hobby.

i was not offended at all by this thank you so much for all the help.

No problems D88, It is what the thread was intended for, to help the less experienced make correct decisions.

i just found this post and i have just read some and what i think bohdi you are right
we newby's need to start somewhere and if there was a post here where the newby's can post there tree's
for comment and not abuse it would bring the esteem up 10 fold
cheers dean the terror