Melaleuca styphelioides seeds

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hey guys,

A question about the bog method. Now the seeds have germinated, do I take them out of their tray? While I’ve changed the water, I’ve noticed it going an unhealthy green and the same starting to develop on top of the soil resulting in a few deaths.

Is it best to take them out of the tray and continue on that way? I worry they may get cooked during the day.

Thanks for any help!

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hey everyone,

So the seedlings are coming along great. I’m really thankful for the advice and help. I had a question regarding melaleuca root systems.

I know with JBP for example, you cut the roots off the seedling, then dip the seedling in hormone solution to get those fine root systems and avoid a big taproot. Does the same principal apply here or, do melaleucas have no issue with being left as is?

I know JBP, I have one with this, develop that big unsightly onion bulge at the base of the trunk and want to get this right.

Thanks for any help!

[Ryceman3]

These are too young to be doing much to them just yet in my opinion.
Below is a link to the thread I have where I did initial root work on mels I grew from seed, it seemed to work out pretty well for me in terms of the seedlings surviving the treatment and also starting the development of a decent bonsai-ready root system.
They loved water (sitting in it was fine) after.

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[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks for the reply again mate, I appreciate your help. Too young yes, I thought they would be. In your pics it looks like you took out the tap root and allowed only side roots? That’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought nor heard of that. I have some K. Ericoides that are about that size. Do you recommend the same treatment? Is this something I should be doing with all species grown from seed?

I’ll also ask if anyone else recommends the “cuttings from seedlings” methods for Aussie natives? All I know of is yes for JBP and I hear oak trees too.

Sorry for more questions! K. Ericoides and M. Stypelloides are pretty much impossible to find here in WA (lucky I did find the m. styph trees down the road).

Cheers mate

EDIT: actually I have a variety of Leptospermum that are hard to find over here in WA, and are the same size as the styph and ericoides. Should I do the same with them? I only have two lanigerum so I want to get that right! Thank you

[Ryceman3]

In your pics it looks like you took out the tap root and allowed only side roots? That’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought nor heard of that. I have some K. Ericoides that are about that size. Do you recommend the same treatment? Is this something I should be doing with all species grown from seed?

I don't have first hand experience with Kunzea but I would look at this technique for any seedlings I grew from seed. Taking out the tap root is the essence of how to get roots to develop radially in a way that works for bonsai. If you leave it in, the tap root dominates and the roots develop further and further from the base of the trunk.

I’ll also ask if anyone else recommends the “cuttings from seedlings” methods for Aussie natives? All I know of is yes for JBP and I hear oak trees too.

Never done it so can't really comment, but I would also ask what you would gain stem cutting most natives? The fundamental rationale behind performing a stem cut on JBP is to encourage radial roots developing from one point (the cut site) to aid development of nebari whilst also reducing the length of the stem/trunk between where roots originate and the first internode. Both of these are favourable in achieving shohin that are looking to be styled relatively traditionally (japanese inspired). I'm not sure the same kind of reasoning applies to natives, but having said that I'm not sure my opinion really matters, if you wanna experiment no reason you shouldn't try. My thoughts are natives (and I speak primarily about mels, some leptos and sheoaks, but also banksia and callistemon ... which I think are now mels anyway) generally either throw branching low anyway or you just don't need it that low in creating bonsai from them. In terms of the roots, they also tend to throw out a wad of fine growth using traditional root cutting technique that is more than adequate. Stem cutting is risky, and I'm not sure the reward would outweigh that risk with natives I have experience with growing from seed.

EDIT: actually I have a variety of Leptospermum that are hard to find over here in WA, and are the same size as the styph and ericoides. Should I do the same with them? I only have two lanigerum so I want to get that right! Thank you

I have used root pruning like in the link I sent on L. lanigerum I got as tubestock and it didn't look back. In my experience it is a very hardy species that grows like stink (both above and below the soil) and is a perfect bonsai candidate. I have a thread on one that is semi cascade you can probably find that might give you an idea of how they progress.

[shibui]

Seedling cuttings of JBP is the most well known but is not the only species this works on.
I have found that almost all species respond to root pruning when the seedlings are small. I guess that seedlings are pre-programmed to grow roots. They need to be able to do this to survive, in case something comes along and munches the only root the seedling has. This ability to regenerate roots is not confined to pines nor to exotics. Plants from all over the world seem to be able to do it. Even Brachychitons that produce a massive root before sending up a shoot cope with root removal during the germination/seedling phase.

I don't bother with seedling cuttings of pines any more. I suspect the promoters are quite selective with the examples they show, choosing to show us the best results and not showing some of the less favourable ones. I certainly don't get 100% great radial roots on JBP seedling cuttings. In fact I seem to get around 10% great, 50% fair and the remainder poor root systems. Some of that may certainly be down to technique but I seem to get better average root systems by just pruning the roots short at first transplant and I have transferred that to almost all the seedlings I grow that are destined for bonsai.

The question of seedling cuttings is less critical for melaleucas than for pines as most Mel species grow new roots easily at any age. To get a good radial root system just bury the trunk where you want roots, water well and wait a year or 2 for the new root system then remove the lower roots when the new roots have developed sufficiently.

[Mickeyjaytee]

I don't have first hand experience with Kunzea but I would look at this technique for any seedlings I grew from seed. Taking out the tap root is the essence of how to get roots to develop radially in a way that works for bonsai. If you leave it in, the tap root dominates and the roots develop further and further from the base of the trunk.

Ah see I had no idea about this. I’m so glad I didn’t go for a repot like I was a few days ago. You’re a life saver!

Interesting about the stem cutting and you’re right. I knew it was to remove the taproot and help radial roots but, did not know about shortening the trunk and being useful for shohin.

I have used root pruning like in the link I sent on L. lanigerum I got as tubestock and it didn't look back. In my experience it is a very hardy species that grows like stink (both above and below the soil) and is a perfect bonsai candidate. I have a thread on one that is semi cascade you can probably find that might give you an idea of how they progress.

I’ll have a look. Cheers mate. It’s one of the many leptos I can’t seem to find over here and really like the look of. I only had two come up out of a tonne of seeds so I’m trying to take care of them as best I can.

Last question I promise. Do you recommend sitting them in water after the root work and for how long? I know Mel’s are fine but, am unsure on Leptospermum.

Thanks again, this has been a real learning experience and I appreciate the advice

[Ryceman3]

I can’t remember if I left it in a tray of water after initial repot but I would say yes. I leave the advanced one in a tray now over summer and it thrives in it, so I wouldn’t have any real reservations.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Cheers mate, I appreciate that. I didn’t know Leptospermum could be kept in a water tray in summer. I wonder if the same is for Kunzeas and other natives?

I went ahead and did some root work on the lanigerum. Fingers crossed they survive. I put one in a great big pot just to grow for my potted area. Love my tea trees!

I’m just waiting for some smaller pots to arrive in the mail and I’ll get to work on the others.

Thanks again mate, your help has been priceless

[dansai]

Some Leptospemums grow in creeks and other waterways. L. maddidum is an example that grows locally to me. I have been growing some in water for 2 years straight now. Thats through winter too. Winter here is pretty mild, no frosts and the occasional 30deg day in July.

The area I have is about 2.5m by just under 1m and the water does dry out in the summer through evaporation, and I let it dry out occasionally in winter so I can give the trees a good water from the top. In there I have L. maddidum as mentioned, L. petersonii, Melaleuca alternifolia, M. linearifolia, M. styphelioides. I also have had a Syzygium hemilamprum which thrived and a seedling Eucalypt that came up in a pot by itself. I also spoke to someone recently who grows his Casuarina in standing water.

Theses are all developing trees. Roots tend to run out into the water and I remove them about every 6 months. The M. alternifolia love it and put on girth fast. I also had some Swamp Cypress in there that went from pencil thick to 3cm+ in under 6 months.

For an illustrated version of the root discussion above, refer back to Treemans pictures in your other post How do YOU develop trees.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate it. I wonder about Leptospermum that don’t grow near creek beds etc? I have some erubescens seedlings so not 100% sure how they will go. I guess giving it a shot is the only way to learn.

I did try petersonii and maddidum but, they all failed to germinate. Perhaps they need the bog method?

Treemans pics are a go to reference for me always now. Really helpful

Thanks again mate

[dansai]

Could also be old seed that you got. Did you order them online? Or collect them yourself? My feeling, not scientific research, would be that fresh seed would have a lot higher success than older seed. Lepto seed is tiny and could dry out and desiccate rapidly. Possibly the bog method for maddidum and petersonii would work as they both grow strongly with plenty of water.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Could also be old seed that you got. Did you order them online? Or collect them yourself? My feeling, not scientific research, would be that fresh seed would have a lot higher success than older seed. Lepto seed is tiny and could dry out and desiccate rapidly. Possibly the bog method for maddidum and petersonii would work as they both grow strongly with plenty of water.

Yeah I ordered it online. Not the best way to do it but, I don’t have any other real option. Eastern states Leptospermum and melaleuca species are really hard to come by over here in WA. It’s a shame cause there’s so many unique and awesome plants over there. Loving my lanigerum. The leaves are awesome. I’ll try again with the others with the bog method.

Thanks again Dan, I appreciate it mate

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hey all,

Sorry to bump this up, I just wanted to be sure these are Melaleuca styphelioides seedlings? They look similar to a weed in my garden I’ve never seen styph seedlings before so very well could be juvenile foliage.

Thanks for any help!

[Ryceman3]

Mine looked like this… about the same age as yours.

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