Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Discussions about propagating from cuttings, seeds, air layers etc. Going on a dig (Yamadori) or thinking of importing? Discuss how, when and where here.
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Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 2:18 pm

i'm looking at getting a varied collection started yet mixed info on germination success with ebay seeds.

I've managed to collect a handful of fresh the other week yet Japanese maples seem to be pretty rare around my parts.

Is it work a try?

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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by TimS » April 29th, 2020, 2:42 pm

I would generally avoid mail order seed for JM as you don’t know how old it is and therefore you might get little to no germination if it is old.

Shibui though i think may sell some off each year from what he collects at the nursery and is able to post. That would be my course of action knowing it’s fresh seed and therefore you can expect high germination rates
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 2:54 pm

Thanks Tim. Also kinda my thoughts too.

Hi Shibui :) Have any seeds?
May try a PM to him

Thnx
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by gnichols » April 29th, 2020, 3:02 pm

Poor timing. I've recently thrown about 1000 seeds into a few pots.

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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 4:34 pm

gnichols wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 3:02 pm
Poor timing. I've recently thrown about 1000 seeds into a few pots.

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Always the way.. :x
Perhaps you'd consider a swap for some if they come up? I make Pots :tu:
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by KIRKY » April 29th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Neil/Shibui also sells seedlings every year. You’d be a head of the game having seedlings instead of waiting on seeds. :imo:
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Daluke » April 29th, 2020, 5:02 pm

How many seeds are you after?

There’s lots dropping in my neighbourhood.

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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by shibui » April 29th, 2020, 5:52 pm

There are plenty of seeds on the maples here.

Please remember that any JM grown from seed is just a Japanese maple. Seedlings must not be given the parent name because every seedling is a unique recombination of genes and different from the mother plant.
I have a number of named and other unnamed varieties that have desirable characteristics and a few that may have good characteristics for bonsai so I can select seed from trees that show specific characteristics if you have anything special in mind. Note that seedlings may or may not show any or all of those characteristics. What you will get is fresh seed that WILL germinate readily come warmer weather in spring.

Also lent of trident seedlings in the garden for those who ant a head start or are too lazy or frightened to start from seed. The Head Gardener has been making disapproving noises about the number and size of the seedlings for a couple of months now. I think she will wait until harvest time though :fc:
There should also be a fair few JM seedlings this year. Much slower growing and I already have a few large orders for both but should still have some left for you guys.

Seed can start now but the seedlings are pulled up and sent bare root so that on't be until June/ July.
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 6:37 pm

shibui wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 5:52 pm
There are plenty of seeds on the maples here.

Please remember that any JM grown from seed is just a Japanese maple. Seedlings must not be given the parent name because every seedling is a unique recombination of genes and different from the mother plant.
I have a number of named and other unnamed varieties that have desirable characteristics and a few that may have good characteristics for bonsai so I can select seed from trees that show specific characteristics if you have anything special in mind. Note that seedlings may or may not show any or all of those characteristics. What you will get is fresh seed that WILL germinate readily come warmer weather in spring.

Also lent of trident seedlings in the garden for those who ant a head start or are too lazy or frightened to start from seed. The Head Gardener has been making disapproving noises about the number and size of the seedlings for a couple of months now. I think she will wait until harvest time though :fc:
There should also be a fair few JM seedlings this year. Much slower growing and I already have a few large orders for both but should still have some left for you guys.

Seed can start now but the seedlings are pulled up and sent bare root so that on't be until June/ July.
Hi Shibui. Thanks for reply.

Essentially I'm looking to expand on what i have already - Not much... A few dozen 2 yr old JM's i collected as 2 inch seedlings and a largish dissectum 'filigree red' That i want to scion graft into the JM's

I've just collected a few hundred fresh seeds from 4 different varieties that i could find locally and trying a few different methods for winter stratification of these.

I'm not overly fluent on all the V's and really just keen to have a crack at some grafting and fusion hence the numbers.

Also keen to get Tridents started.

Cheers
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by TimS » April 29th, 2020, 7:07 pm

From personal experience i can say that growing seeds collected from dissectum trees is not really worth pursuing. I collected 1200+ seeds IIRC, germinated 400+ of them and after 2 years i have 4 left that are still alive, and only 1 that looks strong enough to go much further. For whatever reason the seedlings are just very weak plants.

Also dissectums may at first have desirable traits such as interesting leaf colour, but will generally revert to being green. It can take up to 7 years to be sure that the plant has true to type foliage (assuming it lives that long) so i'd stick to straight species seeds if you want a good number to survive.
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by shibui » April 29th, 2020, 7:18 pm

I've also had disappointing results with seed from weeping varieties. Germination is around 50% which is OK but as Tim has experienced they gradually die off over the next 24 months.
I can overcome that by grafting pieces of the seedlings as soon as they are large enough to take pieces. One weeping seedling lasted for 18 years but finally died last year.
Interestingly I have not noted reversion to green though. The ones I have managed to keep alive seem to stay the same over time (allowing for changes from juvenile and more mature growth)
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 7:31 pm

TimS wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 7:07 pm
From personal experience i can say that growing seeds collected from dissectum trees is not really worth pursuing. I collected 1200+ seeds IIRC, germinated 400+ of them and after 2 years i have 4 left that are still alive, and only 1 that looks strong enough to go much further. For whatever reason the seedlings are just very weak plants.

Also dissectums may at first have desirable traits such as interesting leaf colour, but will generally revert to being green. It can take up to 7 years to be sure that the plant has true to type foliage (assuming it lives that long) so i'd stick to straight species seeds if you want a good number to survive.
Ah yes!.. I read some of your thread on this the other day.
I'd be grafting weeping onto Jm's for a general muck around given the consensus on longevity of straight dissectums.
Such a beautiful graceful tree - Sad its unpredictable.

Did you try grafts?

i'm not overly fussed on color change or throw backs yet the weeping habit is pretty sexy.
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by Alexa » April 29th, 2020, 7:38 pm

shibui wrote:
April 29th, 2020, 7:18 pm
I've also had disappointing results with seed from weeping varieties. Germination is around 50% which is OK but as Tim has experienced they gradually die off over the next 24 months.
I can overcome that by grafting pieces of the seedlings as soon as they are large enough to take pieces. One weeping seedling lasted for 18 years but finally died last year.
Interestingly I have not noted reversion to green though. The ones I have managed to keep alive seem to stay the same over time (allowing for changes from juvenile and more mature growth)
So even with Graft doom will be incoming. :(

I may just have to stick with plan A and get plenty standard JM's started for fuse work.
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by TimS » April 29th, 2020, 7:40 pm

I never bothered grafting any of them, mainly because i generally dislike the way an obvious graft detracts from the bonsai. No reason why you shouldn't give it a crack though. I used to have a grafted wisteria with the only indication it was a graft being a very subtle line low down on the trunk. It will make a fantastic bonsai in time for whomsoever it was that purchased it when i sold them off to make space for other projects.

I do have a non-grafted weeper in my garden that's the thickness of a whiteboard maker at the moment. It's got red leaves and seems happy for the moment so as Shibui noted, some do work longer term.

Interesting re the reversion that you don't see it and i got so much of it. Doesn't really matter since they're pretty much all dead now!
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Re: Mail order Acer Palmatum Seeds - Has anyone had much luck these?

Post by greg27 » April 29th, 2020, 7:44 pm

Is now a good time to plant maple seeds? I've collected some Japanese and trident maple seeds to experiment with but wasn't going to plant them until June-ish.

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