Yamadori Inspiration

Discussions about propagating from cuttings, seeds, air layers etc. Going on a dig (Yamadori) or thinking of importing? Discuss how, when and where here.
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Rory
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Rory »

SquatJar wrote: September 15th, 2021, 8:05 pm Gotcha, I can definitely see some of the trees ramify too early, promoting more of a shrub image.

On the website I think Andrija's cherry plums do the best job of keeping longer sweeping primaries and secondaries before reaching the ramification.

Check out Cherry Plum #9, the ramification at time of collection in 2017 was insane!
ANDBonsai 2017 PC 9.jpg

And then after first pruning 2 years later
ANDBonsai 2019 PC 9.jpg
Thats not one of the trees I'm referring to from page 2.

Also, Im fairly sure I call BullS&% on that tree being dug exactly like that from day 1. That has been dug previously, then grown for a while in that styrafoam, and ramified after being collected, then this photo was taken at its first styling. :beer:
They probably dug 1000s of trees, and only eventually took photos of the ones that survived after the initial collection and a massive cutting back to reduce the size and promote ramification, before being worked on.
I can't believe a man of that expertise would collect, style, cut-back and work a tree like that all on the first day of collection. :shake:

Grant Bowie once pointed out that it is natural for a tree to primarily have the ramification mainly on the outer edges, as this is what a tree naturally does. The interior tends to die back the growth as the outer leaves shade the inner areas of the tree, over time.


delisea wrote: September 15th, 2021, 5:53 pm
Rory wrote: September 15th, 2021, 4:27 pm But its not just the ramification I am talking about. You have stumps with thick primary branches, with one or two off shoots, then a bazillion
"Tim Burton" type branches off of that
OK, yeah I get the lack of taper in branches issue. It is the very difficult to solve. As far as I can tell the only way that can be achieved is lots of time. I would like to see what the Japanese would do with collected deciduous material like this. Are there any examples I wonder?

Cheers,
Symon
Yes, the only answer is time. But when you promote a million new crooked and twisted shoots from this primary or secondary branch, you've permanently ruined the tree. Nothing will correct it no matter how long you give it.
To create a more natural and fluid look, you allow only a decent number of new shoots in proportion to the main design to extend and then duplicate this over and over again, year after year for about 10 - 20 years +

Bonsai is a game of patience, which is often why those who start young and keep an open mind to learning will develop greater bonsai.
Unfortunately a lot of people only want to learn enough to keep their bonsai alive and do not continue to learn about natural growth or at least a proper gradual fluid of movement, rather than simply creating more manicured caricatures.
Rory
I style Bonsai naturally, just as they would appear in the wild.
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Growing Australian natives as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=289480#p289480

Buying and repotting Native nursery material: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=30724

Growing tips for Casuarina as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=244995#p244995

How to reduce moss from the trunk without damaging the bark: viewtopic.php?p=295227#p295227
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delisea
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by delisea »

SquatJar wrote: September 15th, 2021, 6:14 pm I believe it was mentioned on a podcast recently that most of the show ready Korean Hornbeams in Japan are yamadori, and nearly all of those I've seen look stunning
I looked up a few kokufu albums and found one, vol 85 2011.
export1631706351870.jpg
Yep, they know what they are doing. Just the right amount of ramification I would say.
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Ryceman3
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Ryceman3 »

This one isn’t bad either…
E758462B-8812-47C3-AC2C-27A80E074D06.jpeg
Kokufu from a couple of years ago…
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SquatJar
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by SquatJar »

Rory wrote: September 15th, 2021, 8:16 pm Thats not one of the trees I'm referring to from page 2.
Sorry for the confusion, I was trying to use Cherry Plum 9 as an example of an attractive, naturalistic tree, designed by the collector, with the characteristics of the full size trees I posted. Do you agree this tree has been designed naturally, more towards your aesthetic taste compared to the others on page 2?


Rory wrote: September 15th, 2021, 8:16 pm Also, Im fairly sure I call BullS&% on that tree being dug exactly like that from day 1.
Capture.JPG
Capture2.JPG
so unless he is a liar I would say this was taken on the day of collection.


Also I have seen hundreds of hawthorn similar to this when I go collecting, it is achieved by livestock grazing. The problem is 99% of them have a straight trunk and all the branching and ramification happens at the top in an umbrella shape. Unfortunately this only found when you prune away some of the outer dome and get to peek inside.

My reason for posting Cherry Plum 9 was to show the collector doesn't just blindly add endless ramification to every tree. With Cherry Plum 9 he actually started with that, and removed 99% of it to focus on the most pleasing primary branch lines.
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by SquatJar »

Thanks R3 and Symon for finding and posting the Hornbeams, I love how both are so similar at first glance and yet so different upon closer inspection
Life's too short for boring pots
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Rory »

SquatJar wrote: September 16th, 2021, 11:56 am
so unless he is a liar I would say this was taken on the day of collection.

We'll have to agree to disagree. :beer:

I don't believe that was collected, placed into that shallow styrafoam box and worked like crazy all on that same day.
:shake:

Anyway, semantics. Ironically, the pictures you posted of those 3 trees in nature, highlight exactly what I'm saying. :beer:
Rory
I style Bonsai naturally, just as they would appear in the wild.
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Bonsai: Casuarina Leptospermum Banksia Phebalium Baeckea Melalueca Ficus

Growing Australian natives as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=289480#p289480

Buying and repotting Native nursery material: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=30724

Growing tips for Casuarina as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=244995#p244995

How to reduce moss from the trunk without damaging the bark: viewtopic.php?p=295227#p295227
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by treeman »

Page 2 is a mixed bag for me.
I like #1, I hate #2 and #4. Not the natural part but the way the branches have been arranged.
#5 good. #8 good - so far. #9 Beautiful trunk, hideous branches.
#10 very nice. Looks quite natural. # 12, I worry about it's future. It has no direction whatsoever.
The hornbeam #1 is just awful. Horrible! If Walter is of the opinion that it is ''naturalistic'' I have a watch me may want to buy. IMO all the branches should be cut off and started again and even then......
On the first page, Cherry plum #2 is an embarrassment. Cherry plum #06 (IMO) is a good example of someone who thinks he knows what he wants when in fact he has no idea. Walter has done many good things but he also has steered people in some very strange directions.
Generally I see a problem with immaturity and desire over-riding superior taste. No explanation could convince me that Cherry plum #06 is anything but a huge gaffe. #8 and #10 are also well on the way. :palm:
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Rory »

treeman wrote: September 16th, 2021, 4:57 pm Page 2 is a mixed bag for me.
I like #1, I hate #2 and #4. Not the natural part but the way the branches have been arranged.
#5 good. #8 good - so far. #9 Beautiful trunk, hideous branches.
#10 very nice. Looks quite natural. # 12, I worry about it's future. It has no direction whatsoever.
The hornbeam #1 is just awful. Horrible! If Walter is of the opinion that it is ''naturalistic'' I have a watch me may want to buy. IMO all the branches should be cut off and started again and even then......
On the first page, Cherry plum #2 is an embarrassment. Cherry plum #06 (IMO) is a good example of someone who thinks he knows what he wants when in fact he has no idea. Walter has done many good things but he also has steered people in some very strange directions.
Generally I see a problem with immaturity and desire over-riding superior taste. No explanation could convince me that Cherry plum #06 is anything but a huge gaffe. #8 and #10 are also well on the way. :palm:
laugh.jpg
Thats a natural representation of someone reading your comment.

You sir, are the Edmund Blackadder of bonsai critics. :beer:
... pretty sure I'm Percy :palm:
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Rory
I style Bonsai naturally, just as they would appear in the wild.
Central Coast, NSW
Bonsai: Casuarina Leptospermum Banksia Phebalium Baeckea Melalueca Ficus

Growing Australian natives as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=289480#p289480

Buying and repotting Native nursery material: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=30724

Growing tips for Casuarina as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=244995#p244995

How to reduce moss from the trunk without damaging the bark: viewtopic.php?p=295227#p295227
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Keels »

Rory wrote: September 16th, 2021, 8:12 pm
treeman wrote: September 16th, 2021, 4:57 pm Page 2 is a mixed bag for me.
I like #1, I hate #2 and #4. Not the natural part but the way the branches have been arranged.
#5 good. #8 good - so far. #9 Beautiful trunk, hideous branches.
#10 very nice. Looks quite natural. # 12, I worry about it's future. It has no direction whatsoever.
The hornbeam #1 is just awful. Horrible! If Walter is of the opinion that it is ''naturalistic'' I have a watch me may want to buy. IMO all the branches should be cut off and started again and even then......
On the first page, Cherry plum #2 is an embarrassment. Cherry plum #06 (IMO) is a good example of someone who thinks he knows what he wants when in fact he has no idea. Walter has done many good things but he also has steered people in some very strange directions.
Generally I see a problem with immaturity and desire over-riding superior taste. No explanation could convince me that Cherry plum #06 is anything but a huge gaffe. #8 and #10 are also well on the way. :palm:

laugh.jpg

Thats a natural representation of someone reading your comment.

You sir, are the Edmund Blackadder of bonsai critics. :beer:
... pretty sure I'm Percy :palm:
*treeman looking down upon all bonsai artists :lol:
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Keep Calm and Ramify
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

i would love to own any one of them.
i can still find beauty in each.
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by treeman »

Rory post_id=290671 time=1631787161 user_id=5244]


Edmund Blackadder :beer:
My biggest influence :D
...
pretty sure I'm Percy :palm:

You look like a bird that swallowed a plate.
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treeman
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by treeman »

Keels wrote: September 16th, 2021, 8:29 pm


*treeman looking down upon all bonsai artists :lol:
I empty the contents of my nose in the general direction of your OUTRAGEOUS pretentious bonsai.
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by treeman »

Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: September 16th, 2021, 9:26 pm
i can still find beauty in each.
Oh you can not! :tounge:
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by Matt S »

I liked a couple of the olive trees, loose and less structured like the really ancient olives you get in Europe and the Middle East.
630F0432-E610-4B63-BBE0-06EE79BF9266.jpeg
67A527EC-3F6C-4960-83CC-CF332EBB84CF.jpeg
2992B531-F0A3-46E8-970B-101BD9B5326C.jpeg


Actual olives for comparison:

342379DC-77A3-499A-B310-838894368162.jpeg
8428CF64-EFE0-471A-B4DA-8E6FF2AF8CC3.jpeg

Matt
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Re: Yamadori Inspiration

Post by treeman »

Matt S wrote: September 17th, 2021, 5:06 pm I liked a couple of the olive trees, loose and less structured like the really ancient olives you get in Europe and the Middle East.

630F0432-E610-4B63-BBE0-06EE79BF9266.jpeg


67A527EC-3F6C-4960-83CC-CF332EBB84CF.jpeg


2992B531-F0A3-46E8-970B-101BD9B5326C.jpeg



Actual olives for comparison:


342379DC-77A3-499A-B310-838894368162.jpeg


8428CF64-EFE0-471A-B4DA-8E6FF2AF8CC3.jpeg


Matt
Those natural olives are amazing Matt. Reminds me I should have a look at mine sometime soon..... In the 20 years I've had it I've never liked it. (I think it knows)
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