AusBonsai

Hi all,

As part of my talk on Saturday at BBTH (Simplicity, Complexity and Serendipity) I used three Hawthorn that had been dug from the ground about 5 years ago. My main point in the talk was not to over simplify your trees; leave plenty of branches to diffuse the vigour of the tree and not eventually get over thickened branches that would then be difficult to correct.

The Serendipity part was to leave interesting bits on the tree; the little trunk sprout off to the left for instance.

The one below was the best of the 3 in terms of getting it into a bonsai pot and with a nice flat root system.(Reciprocating Saw used just after it was dug up).

I am currently rewiring it and will post when finished.
Grant

Thanks, Grant
It was good to see progress steps on Aussie Yamadori and to hear your reasoning . Your demo. added greatly to the mix that Bonsai By the Harbour serves up and highlights our goal to showcase local talent.

ric wrote:Thanks, Grant
It was good to see progress steps on Aussie Yamadori and to hear your reasoning . Your demo. added greatly to the mix that Bonsai By the Harbour serves up and highlights our goal to showcase local talent.

Gee, Thanks DAD!

But I agree it was a great weekend.

Grant

Here is the tree after 2 years of growth and a wiring. Lots of complexity and no over thickening.
Grant

Thanks Grant, a very interesting demonstration and talk.

What a transformation in 2 years. Thanks for sharing.

Josh

If you are interested there are a few photos of the demonstration on my blog. The link is below.

I like the little Son and Daughter trunks Grant. Actually I like the tree too.
Have you had them flower yet?
Is this the species that gets the nasty thorns?

Regards,
Steven

Steven wrote:I like the little Son and Daughter trunks Grant. Actually I like the tree too.
Have you had them flower yet?
Is this the species that gets the nasty thorns?

Regards,
Steven

hi Steven.

It did have thorns and I scraped myself a few times.

When I rewired it I removed all of the thorns first.

Not flowered yet.

Grant

Being a wirer myself i love the structural arrangement you have applied with the wiring. A less experienced person that yourself would have cut some off but you have manipulated them splendidly to suit the tree. Always best to wire everything as we can always get rid of them later, although it is in development stage it is already starting to look harmonious.

Hi Grant
What a great looking tree. I have learnt something very simple from this post and that is its always better to leave and wire more than less. (Thanks must go to you too Bodhi for mentioning that).
I do however have one question.

Grant Bowie wrote:The one below was the best of the 3 in terms of getting it into a bonsai pot and with a nice flat root system.(Reciprocating Saw used just after it was dug up).

Do you mean you cut the roots flat? and if so, how much did did you remove?
I have a couple of these soaking in seasol at the moment that had to come out of a friends yard( it was either me or the trash pack)
and the roots are thick and random.
I have seen picks of people "flattening" off the bottom of Olives before they go into a grow box, is this what you mean.
Cheers
Damian

I am little bit confused here. I have not reached advanced stage of styling branches yet.
I love your tree and has lots of character, and it is so well styled. My question is:
I read and read, but have not done much yet, But find lots of conflicting info.
Some say You let a branch grow , 8-10 internodes (depending on the position and condition of the branch) and then you chop back hard. Some say thicken the branch first almost as thick as you want it and then cut...Like leaders? Some just let the branch grow as long as needed and even start growing secondary branches after that.
Which method did you use?
Do you consider your branches thick enough and if not how do you plan to thicken them? Will they thicken on their own from now on, as the tree grows, or you will use escape branches or some other method.
I can not figure out which method is the best since I dont have experience yet. So far I have just let my branches grow unrestricted, just wired, to thicken. The tree looks ugly, while yours looks beautiful.
Which method is the best...and which method is not so best but makes the tree look better while you are styling it, but you achieve the same result at the end.
This is the tree that made me to ask this questions:
Very nice tree with thin branches.

bodhidharma wrote:Being a wirer myself i love the structural arrangement you have applied with the wiring. A less experienced person that yourself would have cut some off but you have manipulated them splendidly to suit the tree. Always best to wire everything as we can always get rid of them later, although it is in development stage it is already starting to look harmonious.

Yes it is very difficult at an early stage to make it look realistic and harmonious, but time will take care of that if you have done the early work diligently and creatively.

Grant

Damian79 wrote:Hi Grant
What a great looking tree. I have learnt something very simple from this post and that is its always better to leave and wire more than less. (Thanks must go to you too Bodhi for mentioning that).
I do however have one question.

Grant Bowie wrote:The one below was the best of the 3 in terms of getting it into a bonsai pot and with a nice flat root system.(Reciprocating Saw used just after it was dug up).

Do you mean you cut the roots flat? and if so, how much did did you remove?
I have a couple of these soaking in seasol at the moment that had to come out of a friends yard( it was either me or the trash pack)
and the roots are thick and random.
I have seen picks of people "flattening" off the bottom of Olives before they go into a grow box, is this what you mean.
Cheers
Damian

The trees came out of the ground fairly easily but I cut off about 70 or 80% of the roots in a single flat cut across the bottom once I got them home. All three have survived but it may have been a bit harsh initially as it took about 4 years for the other two to firm up in the pots and grow good roots. They were in deep plastic pots for the first 2 years and that may have been a mistake and could have gone into deep bonsai pots straightaway and be wired in.

Grant

Neli wrote:I am little bit confused here. I have not reached advanced stage of styling branches yet.
I love your tree and has lots of character, and it is so well styled. My question is:
I read and read, but have not done much yet, But find lots of conflicting info.
Some say You let a branch grow , 8-10 internodes (depending on the position and condition of the branch) and then you chop back hard. Some say thicken the branch first almost as thick as you want it and then cut...Like leaders? Some just let the branch grow as long as needed and even start growing secondary branches after that.
Which method did you use?
Do you consider your branches thick enough and if not how do you plan to thicken them? Will they thicken on their own from now on, as the tree grows, or you will use escape branches or some other method.
I can not figure out which method is the best since I dont have experience yet. So far I have just let my branches grow unrestricted, just wired, to thicken. The tree looks ugly, while yours looks beautiful.
Which method is the best...and which method is not so best but makes the tree look better while you are styling it, but you achieve the same result at the end.
This is the tree that made me to ask this questions:
Very nice tree with thin branches.

OK, a huge set of questions.

First I already had the trunk as thick as I wanted it and I believed the taper could be "cut" into the trunk by removing original branches and trunks etc. There were no side branches worth keeping that low on the trunks so I had no original, flexible braches to start with. Rather than leave a stub to sprout in one or two locations I removed everything.

After 2 years of growth I then just wired the branches I wanted to keep into position(removed some that were either over thick or too many from the one point) and then probably followed the allow to grow a bit and cut back method you mention above.

From now on I will keep allowing the branches to grow in spring and always cut out any branches or branchlets where there are more than 2 branches from one point. This will cause back budding and will slowly build in taper to each branch. Do not keep constantly cutting back to nothing as you keep losing ramification. The more growth points on the tree or branch the slower each one thickens and this way the tree becomes more refined over time.

All of the techniques you list above work(see thread Black cat/White cat) so you pick one for you tree and follow it.

I will post shots of the other two trees so that you can see where I started from and my choices. I have however already done some light thinning at the recent Bonsai By the Harbour,

Grant