What is wrong with my Maple?

[63pmp]

Hi Shane,

I've has similar problems with the occasional Japanese maples in spring.

It usually improves as the weather warms up. Did you re-pot the tree the winter? If not, it's likely that roots are sitting in the bottom of the pot and are submerged in water.

Don't feed a sick tree unless you are completely confident it is a nutritional deficiency. As over feeding can cause more problems.

More then likely it is just cold and moist, which will effect how nutrients are taken up by the roots.

Back off on the water and see what happens.

Paul

[Shane Martin]

Hi Shane,

I've has similar problems with the occasional Japanese maples in spring.

It usually improves as the weather warms up. Did you re-pot the tree the winter? If not, it's likely that roots are sitting in the bottom of the pot and are submerged in water.

Don't feed a sick tree unless you are completely confident it is a nutritional deficiency. As over feeding can cause more problems.

More then likely it is just cold and moist, which will effect how nutrients are taken up by the roots.

Back off on the water and see what happens.

Paul

Hi Paul,
This particular tree wasn't repotted this winter, but the other couple were, and exhibit the same issue, so I think I have been too heavy handed with the water. I have tilted the pots this morning and a small amount of water started draining out. I think I need to buy a moisture meter or something.... I just can't seem to judge it properly without digging down into every pot each day. The top looks dry when in fact the bottom half is probably wet....
Can the surface roots become damaged by drying out too much while waiting for the rest to be less wet?
Should I repot this one right away?

[Shane Martin]

Re: feeding. I do it all the time. Seasol and gogog juice on alternate weeks, pelletised "roses only" just gone on and refreshed in about 3 months, liquid powerfeed every other week plus some trace elements once a month in the warmer parts of the year. I stick to Walter pall's philosophy- totally inorganic substrate, water often and feed heavily.
Cheers
H

Hayden, can you tell me what you use as your "totally inorganic substrate", and where you live? Are your summers scorchers, and how many times a day do you need to water.
Cheers
Shane

[Paulneill]

You would be surprised how much you can let the soil dry out without killing a tree.
At the end of the day the main issue it the mix you are using
The good thing a out inorganic medium is there is no guess work just water every morning and all is good .
I think with your mix you really need to stick your finger in there a good inch and check each plant every day.
Wait intil it completely dry an inch down. I experiment with some trees and don't water them on purpose do see what the limits are. It's easy to spot a tree suffering moisture loss through spring and summer as new growth wilts . You probibly didn't need to water those trees at all over winter.

[Shane Martin]

You would be surprised how much you can let the soil dry out without killing a tree.
At the end of the day the main issue it the mix you are using
The good thing a out inorganic medium is there is no guess work just water every morning and all is good .
I think with your mix you really need to stick your finger in there a good inch and check each plant every day.
Wait intil it completely dry an inch down. I experiment with some trees and don't water them on purpose do see what the limits are. It's easy to spot a tree suffering moisture loss through spring and summer as new growth wilts . You probibly didn't need to water those trees at all over winter.

Wow....A great deal to digest Paul. I will certainly look at these points over the coming months.
Appreciate all the comments and knowledge being shared by everyone.
Thankyou

[63pmp]

Hi Shane,

I agree with Paulneil, hold back on the water for a few days and see how long it takes to cause softening. It's not good to have a mix that dries out on the top and is waterlogged at the bottom. I try and keep the top of the mix a little damp as Japanese maples are surface feeders and being too dry on top can kill off these fine roots, though the occasional drying wont hurt. I always mulch my maples with course-ish pine bark to stop them drying out too much. Do your pots sit directly on wood or a bench, or on wire mesh? I ask because I have had trees die from sitting directly on a bench and air could not enter the bottom of the pot as all the holes were on the base of the pot.

Paul

[Haydenmc]

I use equal part diatomite zeolite and pumice, with the moisture lovers I add about 10% sphagnum moss for a bit of piece of mind. I'm in melbourne and good once a day watering is fine even on the hottest days, on a hot windy day though I like to set the watering to spray for a few minutes about mid afternoon - as it can remain hot well into the night.

[Shane Martin]

Hi Shane,

I agree with Paulneil, hold back on the water for a few days and see how long it takes to cause softening. It's not good to have a mix that dries out on the top and is waterlogged at the bottom. I try and keep the top of the mix a little damp as Japanese maples are surface feeders and being too dry on top can kill off these fine roots, though the occasional drying wont hurt. I always mulch my maples with course-ish pine bark to stop them drying out too much. Do your pots sit directly on wood or a bench, or on wire mesh? I ask because I have had trees die from sitting directly on a bench and air could not enter the bottom of the pot as all the holes were on the base of the pot.

Paul

Hi Paul,
One tree is in a bonsai pot with a good 1/2'' high legs on a wooden bench now back in full sun. I put it under shade a week ago as I thought it may not be coping with the full sun. I have also mulched this one with sphagnum moss about a fortnight ago to retain some moisture on the surface as the pot is fairly shallow. I did this with one of my big tridents last summer which is in a pot barely 2 inches deep, and it helped greatly in slowing this one from drying out too quickly. The other 2 Japanese Maples are separated air layers from last season which are still in 10'' plastic nursery pots sitting directly on concrete getting around 5-6 hours full sun a day. I was hoping the bottom heat from the concrete would help new root development.

[63pmp]

Hi Shane,

It sounds like you have your trees so that water won't pond under the pots, though I would suggest a few thin pieces of wood or tile to lift the 10 inch pots off the concrete, this will just break the seal of the pot to the concrete which can hold a lot of water by capillary action, but still get the benefit form the warm concrete.

I too had an early spring surge from the warm weather in July, and then the cold came back in early august and slowed the trees down. I only have a few kashima that are pushing leaves at the moment, most maples are just swelling buds.

I still think the problem is just the moisture and cold that's affecting nutrient uptake by the roots. Or your mix has had a bacterial/fungal growth spurt in the warmer weather that has taken up some minor nutrients and are now not available for the plant. This is not a real problem and the plant will catch up as things warm up.

I'm not a big fan of early spring feeding, I only give my trees a basic feed of potassium, magnesium and calcium, which I mix up myself, and mostly because my water has sodium and is alkali. I feed them nitrogen and phosphorus when, the third set of leaves harden off. For Japanese maples I would stick with organic fish emulsion type fertilizers, such as Charlie Carp I can't recommend any off the shelf chemical fertilizers, but some of the two pack hydroponics fertilizers are good, but use with a greater dilution rate than is recommended in the pack. I'm finding with my maples that they do not need a lot of nitrogen, especially ammonium, in spring. That's my experience with making my own fertilizers.

Let us know how they go with longer periods between watering and placing in more sun.

Regards

Paul

[Shane Martin]

I use equal part diatomite zeolite and pumice, with the moisture lovers I add about 10% sphagnum moss for a bit of piece of mind. I'm in melbourne and good once a day watering is fine even on the hottest days, on a hot windy day though I like to set the watering to spray for a few minutes about mid afternoon - as it can remain hot well into the night.

Hayden, thanks for the substrate info. Regarding that....Why those particular 3 ingredients?
do you sieve your ingredients?
Do you use Mt Sylvia diatomite?
I seem to only be able to source zeolite in small retail sized bags(expensive), and it's only 2mm.
Do you use a bigger size.
I have 5 mm scoria which I am going to try some tests with equal parts diatomite
I don't sieve my diatomite unless it's for small pots, but I do rinse the fine dust out of it first.

[Shane Martin]

Hi Shane,

I'm not a big fan of early spring feeding, I only give my trees a basic feed of potassium, magnesium and calcium, which I mix up myself, and mostly because my water has sodium and is alkali. I feed them nitrogen and phosphorus when, the third set of leaves harden off. For Japanese maples I would stick with organic fish emulsion type fertilizers, such as Charlie Carp I can't recommend any off the shelf chemical fertilizers, but some of the two pack hydroponics fertilizers are good, but use with a greater dilution rate than is recommended in the pack. I'm finding with my maples that they do not need a lot of nitrogen, especially ammonium, in spring. That's my experience with making my own fertilizers.

Let us know how they go with longer periods between watering and placing in more sun.

Regards

Paul

Thanks so much Paul for this added info....
I have been using a Powerfeed/Seasol combo last season with fantastic results across the board, supported with an occasional dose of Osmocote. At repotting this winter, my root systems showed phenomenal health and growth.

[63pmp]

Shane,

Sounds like your fertilizer program suites you, so stick with it.

Paul

[Haydenmc]

I use these products because I can get them through Damian Bee at our club meetings at a reasonable cost and excellent quality also after some careful thinking - and blind hope. I was going to use kens 1/3 zeolite 2/3 diatomite, but was a little concerned about ph - after seeing the root growth in some trees i had planted in a mix that contained perlite - and reading that pumice and perlite are very similar i decided to add pumice as a 'sharp' component that also retains some good moisture - dont recall who the diatomite is from - the zeolite is 2-4mm grade from memory, the pumice 2-6mm perhaps??? its all a bit fuzzy. I dont sieve or grade in any way - slightly moisten before potting - to keep dust down and ensure the fresh trimmed roots arent exposed to very dry moisture thirsty substrate - then water WELL - until all dust is gone.
Larger bags of Zeolite from a stock / grainfeed store perhaps?
Im happy with the mix, it has a good look - after about 2 months in the pot it ages out nicely and has a nice feel to it - also is 'reusable' but most of my used stuff goes into grow boxes or garden bed.
Food for thought

H

[Shane Martin]

Great explanation and info thanks Hayden.
I do like the idea of going totally inorganic... i guess in the end it boils down to availability of materials in your local area. I'm in a rural area where not all things are readily available strangely enough.
Thanks Again for all you input Hayden