Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Hello friends, I hope all my fellow Victorians are keeping strong and entertained! I’m surely struggling but we have to keep going!
Question... I was looking at my cedar and I’m now starting to notice all the defects just in general of all the trees I have and trying to live with it or doing something about it...
as per attached photos there are few bar branches on this tree and I don’t know if this is ok giving that it is an evergreen and you won’t be really be able to see it as much as you would on a deciduous tree...or instead I should address and remove...
It’s a big decision as this is one of my favourite and more refined trees so I don’t want to make a mistake and mess it up and learn...
I’ve noticed the presence of bar branches or branches growing from same spot or very close to each other on other evergreen trees (styled from much more experienced people) so I’m questioning of this is something considered ok for the viewer as it is not as distracting as on deciduous trees...
Can you please share your opinion and am I totally off track here?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Question... I was looking at my cedar and I’m now starting to notice all the defects just in general of all the trees I have and trying to live with it or doing something about it...
as per attached photos there are few bar branches on this tree and I don’t know if this is ok giving that it is an evergreen and you won’t be really be able to see it as much as you would on a deciduous tree...or instead I should address and remove...
It’s a big decision as this is one of my favourite and more refined trees so I don’t want to make a mistake and mess it up and learn...
I’ve noticed the presence of bar branches or branches growing from same spot or very close to each other on other evergreen trees (styled from much more experienced people) so I’m questioning of this is something considered ok for the viewer as it is not as distracting as on deciduous trees...
Can you please share your opinion and am I totally off track here?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7673
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 67 times
- Been thanked: 1419 times
- Contact:
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
It is better not to have bar branches if possible, even if they are hidden by foliage. 2 branches will thicken the trunk and eventually give reverse taper. Fortunately cedar are slow to thicken so you can get away with it for many years.
You may be able to take some of them off without unduly affecting the design of the tree. I think we tend to start out with way more branches than really needed. As ramification increases they become crowded. Removing some early on will allow the better placed ones to develop better and fill the spaces. Yours does seem to be pretty full at the moment.
However, don't just slavishly remove all bar branches. I think you are correct that evergreen foliage hides the distraction so it is not a visual problem. If removing one will leave a big hole that can't be filled with a nearby branch it should be retained.
You may be able to take some of them off without unduly affecting the design of the tree. I think we tend to start out with way more branches than really needed. As ramification increases they become crowded. Removing some early on will allow the better placed ones to develop better and fill the spaces. Yours does seem to be pretty full at the moment.
However, don't just slavishly remove all bar branches. I think you are correct that evergreen foliage hides the distraction so it is not a visual problem. If removing one will leave a big hole that can't be filled with a nearby branch it should be retained.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- MJL
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: October 26th, 2014, 8:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Maples, Elms, Cedars and Pines
- Bonsai Age: 7
- Bonsai Club: Waverley Bonsai Group & Yarra Valley Bonsai Society
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 424 times
- Been thanked: 643 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Cool tree! I can see why you wold take care....
It's hard to tell but I imagine there would be/must be some bar branches that could be removed without much visual impact and/or bending other branches into or to close gaps from removed bars. Even if not... I think you might find that any space created by removed some bars will create more definition (by the fact there is more negative space) and an even more exciting tree.
Perhaps think about flattening it out too - at the top but throughout - I sit firmly in the camp of loving the horizontal lines of some cedars. That said - there are photo and approaches for more rounded trees too. Whatever floats your inspiration boat.
No need to rush either, I reckon - I would not remove the bars for the sake of it ... nor race to a decision. I am often surprised how I come to the answer after much consideration ....
Also note - might sound weird (and may not work) but try to strike the bars as cuttings when you do take them off. There are little trees in those branches
It's hard to tell but I imagine there would be/must be some bar branches that could be removed without much visual impact and/or bending other branches into or to close gaps from removed bars. Even if not... I think you might find that any space created by removed some bars will create more definition (by the fact there is more negative space) and an even more exciting tree.
Perhaps think about flattening it out too - at the top but throughout - I sit firmly in the camp of loving the horizontal lines of some cedars. That said - there are photo and approaches for more rounded trees too. Whatever floats your inspiration boat.
No need to rush either, I reckon - I would not remove the bars for the sake of it ... nor race to a decision. I am often surprised how I come to the answer after much consideration ....
Also note - might sound weird (and may not work) but try to strike the bars as cuttings when you do take them off. There are little trees in those branches
Tending bonsai teaches me patience.
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Thank you, I will look at the tree until it comes clear to me what to remove... in terms of removing do I just cut flush the branch or create a Jin? I'm thinking I should just cut as the space left will eventually be partially filled by another branch... does that make sense?shibui wrote: ↑August 26th, 2020, 8:59 pm It is better not to have bar branches if possible, even if they are hidden by foliage. 2 branches will thicken the trunk and eventually give reverse taper. Fortunately cedar are slow to thicken so you can get away with it for many years.
You may be able to take some of them off without unduly affecting the design of the tree. I think we tend to start out with way more branches than really needed. As ramification increases they become crowded. Removing some early on will allow the better placed ones to develop better and fill the spaces. Yours does seem to be pretty full at the moment.
However, don't just slavishly remove all bar branches. I think you are correct that evergreen foliage hides the distraction so it is not a visual problem. If removing one will leave a big hole that can't be filled with a nearby branch it should be retained.
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Thanks I will gradually remove the branches as I progress on this tree, I think I've identified one that could go now...need to find the courage and do it ... regarding the horizontal lines I know all the debate about it but I'm on the classic branch down style at least for this tree, don't really enjoy the natural form of the tree... cutting yes I actually removed a branch already 4 months ago and it is in a pot with some other juniper cuttings... we will see if it survives and strikes roots! will update the threadMJL wrote: ↑August 26th, 2020, 9:38 pm Cool tree! I can see why you wold take care....
It's hard to tell but I imagine there would be/must be some bar branches that could be removed without much visual impact and/or bending other branches into or to close gaps from removed bars. Even if not... I think you might find that any space created by removed some bars will create more definition (by the fact there is more negative space) and an even more exciting tree.
Perhaps think about flattening it out too - at the top but throughout - I sit firmly in the camp of loving the horizontal lines of some cedars. That said - there are photo and approaches for more rounded trees too. Whatever floats your inspiration boat.
No need to rush either, I reckon - I would not remove the bars for the sake of it ... nor race to a decision. I am often surprised how I come to the answer after much consideration ....
Also note - might sound weird (and may not work) but try to strike the bars as cuttings when you do take them off. There are little trees in those branches
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 476
- Joined: June 15th, 2015, 6:23 pm
- Bonsai Age: 31
- Location: Winkie
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
drape and hide the possible removals with a neutral coloured tea towel or some such--- could show you a better quality tree
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2218
- Joined: April 26th, 2010, 11:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Bonsai Club: CBS
- Location: Canberra
- Has thanked: 467 times
- Been thanked: 228 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
x2. Definitely cover branches first, to see what the effect is before you cut.
Gavin
Gavin
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Can anyone share their opinion on cutting the branches? Jin or cut flush?
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 821
- Joined: August 28th, 2019, 7:52 am
- Favorite Species: Olive & Eucalypts
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Bonsai Club: SA Bonsai Society; VNBC
- Location: Adelaide
- Has thanked: 608 times
- Been thanked: 452 times
- Contact:
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
Start with a jin; if you don't like it you can always cut flush later.
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7673
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 67 times
- Been thanked: 1419 times
- Contact:
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
It often depends on whether the jin can be seen. If it can't be seen or does not add to the picture there's no point having a jin so cut flush. I don't think these have issues with dying back further like maples sometimes do.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
I found some courage and there you go...
What do you think???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What do you think???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: April 16th, 2012, 1:50 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 3
- Bonsai Club: Bonsai Northwest
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...
And with a couple of adjustments...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Keep Calm and Ramify
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 955
- Joined: April 1st, 2017, 11:50 am
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Location: Newcastle NSW
- Has thanked: 403 times
- Been thanked: 451 times