Wisteria 'Double Dragon'

[MattA]

I planted this Wisteria 'Double Dragon' 11yrs ago at the foot of a Cedrus atlantica 'Glauca' in my parents front yard. It was in flower the year it was planted but has never flowered since, I think it may be due to the shade and lack of water where it is growing. It has had the odd bit of pruning especially over the last few years but on the whole has been allowed to choose its own shape and course up and around the cedar.

I am trying to decide whether to dig it this year or leave it one more year and am opening it up to the forum to help me decide. I am so used to seeing it wrapped round this trunk it will be great to finally have it free standing but am in no rush to dig it another year wont make a major contribution to size but it wont hurt either. I hope once its given better care and more light & water it wil start to bloom again as it is a beautiful double dark purple sinensis hybrid, the racemes are short but they pack a punch for colour

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If anyone want to have a crack at styling this I would love to see some options for it. Trunk is 5" at nebari 3" above that, overall length of longest side is about 2.4mtrs. It would be my preference to keep as much of the plant intact and just compress it together. the trunk it climbs is about 12=14" thick

Matt

[Glenda]

My opinion for what it is worth, Matt, is that where it is with lack of sunlight and water, isn't doing it justice. Dig it and put it where it will get adequate light and water, and it will develop faster.

Glenda

[Jamie]

dig it up matty!

leaving it where it is for one more year wont do a great deal apart from making it harder to get out of the ground! if you feel it needs to recover more stick it in the ground at your place in full sun.

one more year where it is competing with the cedar isnt gonna help it much

jamie

[techpetal]

Agreed with all so far, get it out and give it a real chance.

Letting it stay there for another year won't be of any benefit. It might slow for a year after digging...quid pro quo. Means you will be a year ahead the following year.

Just getting the right time will minimise the slowing. Give it a few shovel cuts now and then go the whole hog in a month or so. The cedar is the one that will make it difficult for you if there are some close monster roots.

Tech

[MattA]

Well I was the only one who voted to leave it in the ground so i had my dad dig this baby & bring it up for me today. Its amazing how deceptive things can be inground sompared to a pot. It didnt look that big growing against the cedar, getting it out of there van was fun. I opted to pot it rather than put it in the ground so I can start working on it once it gets resettled & is growing strongly. I had to reduce the roots a bit more to fit the pot and remove damage, still have lots compared to what I would have dug it with. I also removed a small bit from the top of the longer section. Will wisteria grow from root cuttings?

I will post pics from a few more angles tomorow when the sun isnt behind it, its not light to move. I would really like to keep this as a BIG tree, I am not concerned with seeing it finished but getting it started on its way for the next 30+yrs(touch shari). I will throw the tape over it tomorow but would guess the overall length of the trunk is about 2.m with the first branch at about 400+, the trunk is just over 3" at ground level.

Twisting cascade maybe? Now its free of the cedar I can see its curves and would like to enhance them while compressing the whole lot down to about 1200 apex to tail. If anyone can see something I am not I wuld love to hear some alternative ideas for my dragon.

Matt

[nealweb]

My only contribution would be to consider tilting it in some direction so that the first section is not so vertical. After that i don't know. A cascade might look nice with the hanging flowers

[Jan]

Will wisteria grow from root cuttings?

Yes, wisteria will grow from root cuttings; I have two in training that were started from root sections of about 7cm. It took a while for them to shoot and not all cuttings went for me, but it did happen.

The only problem might be if the plant is a grafted one the roots may not be Wisteria Floribunda ‘Violacea Plena’ (syn. ‘Yae Kokuryu - Double Black Dragon’.) If variety isn't an issue it would be a shame to waste the material.

As for style, twisting cascade, like the image of a Chinese Dragon on a scroll, sounds ideal and, I agree would make a great frame for the blooms (you'd never gues I'm a wisteria fan).

Keep us posted as to how it goes,

Jan.

[kcpoole]

Nice Matt and you did the right thing
Once it recovers you can think to style it. In the menatime Sit back and look at to get an idea of what might become.

I might think about using the last photo and tilt to the right and then compress the big bend to lower the apex. You look like there woudl be a nice back branch there for that side

Ken
ps forgot to add that I Love wisteria

[MattA]

Yes, wisteria will grow from root cuttings; I have two in training that were started from root sections of about 7cm. It took a while for them to shoot and not all cuttings went for me, but it did happen.

The only problem might be if the plant is a grafted one the roots may not be Wisteria Floribunda ‘Violacea Plena’ (syn. ‘Yae Kokuryu - Double Black Dragon’.) If variety isn't an issue it would be a shame to waste the material.

As for style, twisting cascade, like the image of a Chinese Dragon on a scroll, sounds ideal and, I agree would make a great frame for the blooms (you'd never gues I'm a wisteria fan).

Keep us posted as to how it goes,

Jan.

Jan, Thanks so much for your information. Your right its too good to waste the material and I have lots of roots to play with so might try knots & major looping twists with them. I only ever knew its common name so its great to have it in full, I didnt know it was a japanese hybrid... fantastic! Not that I will remember From memory I think it is a graft. I do have some struck cuttings and have a heap more from this years prune.

Nice Matt and you did the right thing
Once it recovers you can think to style it. In the menatime Sit back and look at to get an idea of what might become.

I might think about using the last photo and tilt to the right and then compress the big bend to lower the apex. You look like there woudl be a nice back branch there for that side

Ken
ps forgot to add that I Love wisteria

Ken, I wont be doing anything as far as styling for atleast a year and then will work the whole thing down over another couple of years. Wisteria wood is fairly flexible but you have to be careful of it not splitting too much by trying to push a bend too far too fast, slowly slowly. They also take a long time to set in position due to its being so flexible.


On twisting it in my head most of the night I can see either 1 really big dragon making a head from the first main branch and the tail from the rest of the trunk or maybe 2 twisting out of the main stump one going up, one going down. The trunk is 7' along the twist. The tree has a spread of 6' by 5' and stands 4' high from the rim of the pot. Trunk at ground level is just under 4".

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[MattA]

This tree has thumped away in the last 3weeks from the first hesitant buds to now a full head. As I have often experienced with transtplanted trees that after an initial burst there is a gap where the shortened roots cannot supply enough water to the growth and the plants experience a daily 'wilting' even tho the soil remains damp. To help balance this I have tipped all the extending shoots to conserve water needs until it gets more roots happening.

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I am torn between 2 designs for this tree. One using the first branch to form a dragon arching up & then back down. The larger arm being bent radically down and around the front so it forms a second dragon coiling around to take the pearl from the upper one. It would make the most of the tree in the least amount of space with the curves I want to put into the lower trunk & at the first branching.

The other alternative is to bend the main trunkline up at the first branch to form the waist, the first branch can be continued wrapping around the trunk to form a hooped ballgown and the upper branches extended to form arms in motion with a neat 'head', she would stand about 6-7' plus pot. It is an image i drew many years ago that has stuck in my head. A ballet dancers feet & legs hidden by foliage in summer, revealed in winter and clothed in dark purple lace for spring.

Matt

[MattA]

With all the wind last night I expected something to have blown over or off a bench. A sheet of tin from my new shed was ripped clean off the side in the middle of the night so.... Well I was right but would have never thought that this tree would blow over, its a BIG pot & not light, tho I was being cheeky & cutting down weight using polystyrene in the bottom 1/3rd instead of rock. It did have to be facing broadside to the wind & with the spread of it over it had gone.

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After I had had a coffee & calmed my nerves enough to look, only one small tip of a most likely redundant branch was broken & all the topping in the pot had come out. Hooray.. no damage really. Then I had a closer look at the base.. how much had it moved???

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This is what I found... roots everywhere & almost no movement of the trunk It has been restood up & given some wind protection until I get a pallet cleared to tie it to. Now to redress the top with a load of gravel & a heap of dynamic lifter.

Matt

[MattA]

Whenever I had the chance I spent it, in, under & around this tree trying to decide on where to take it style wise, I really liked the idea of a very tall upright with cascading branches, but I also liked the idea of taking the main trunkline into a full cascade... at the start of Jan, a thread was posted on IBC with pics of a heap of old postcards. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5214 ... entenaries The cards shown are a snapshot back to the start of the last century & theres some great inspiration amongst them, one is of a woman standing next to a Wisteria, it gave me the answer ... upright...This Wisteria still needs more than a few years growing to really fill out so it was put back in the ground 2wks ago. This week I had some spare time so hooked in...

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There is a fair amount of flex in the wood & if you work with the natural twist even better, I achieved most of my desired angle change before a small stress crack opened up along the trunk in the bend area. I am not overly concerned about the crack but didnt want it any wider so stopped for now. I want to get a fair amount of twist in the middle section that is currently very straight, but for now I am happy to let recover before any more work is done.

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Matt

Ed: spelling

[pjkatich]

Looks good so far Matt.

In regards to the stress crack, the only thing I would recommend is to keep an eye on this location for a while. In my experience, this type of damage can lead to some die back in that section of the trunk and eventually rot might set in. If this were mine, I would consider putting some cut sealer on the fracture. The sealer may not look pretty, but the alternative is worse.

Cheers,
Paul

[MattA]

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the advice, I too am concerned with the possibility of rot setting in. With the crack opening up between 'veins' I am hopeful there will be no dieback, tho am also concerned about rot setting in (wisteria rot out so quick & easy). After taking the photo I used a mix of beeswax & comfrey to seal it. I have used this mix on a few other trees & the results have been pretty good so heres hoping.

Matt

[MattA]

Pics taken over the weekend with the last of the fall colour. This variety is supposed to be the best wisteria and if this years preview is anything to go by I am loving it more & more. In its old position, under a cedar in my parents garden, it never coloured. Once its bare I will untie the upper half & continue twisting.

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