AusBonsai Shohin Progressive Styling Competition 2011/2012

[Craig]

Gavin,

G'day,

For the record, any tree shohin size and under will be accepted. Shohin size being maximum 250mm (10 inches) tall from rim of pot to top of tree.

As stated in the rules under TIME-FRAME AND COMMITMENTS, Work can only be done on your submissions between 1st September 2011 and 31st October 2012. To ensure fairness for all, we may request proof that trees have not yet been worked on towards the end of August. You have been warned

Due to his past contributions to our forum, I have inducted Andrew Legg of Cape Town as a temporary Aussie for the duration of the competition so he can participate. However due to such different growing conditions, his submissions will not be eligible for winning.

Regards,
Steven

[Pup]

I am not entering this competition. This however is my slant on a trunk chop. And no work until the 1st of September.

P1090408.JPG

P1090412.JPG

P1090413.JPG

P1090419.JPG

I hope this helps to explain what a trunk chop only means .

Cheers, Pup and good luck to all

[Craig]

What if I have a previously styled taller bonsai but I am going to chop down the trunk, removing all styled trunk and branches. So you are left with a piece of stock with some previous root work and a trunk chop, which is within the rules. Would that be allowed??

G'day Neal,

In order to keep it simple, no previous styling can have been done.

Regards,
Steven

Pup, your tree has a wire training a new leader on it ,,,Yes/no.
If yes then it would be the same as Neal's, same question/same answer..

[Greenhorn]

nice tree pup id like to follow that ones progress over 14 months perhaps a progression thread ?

sorry to ask as this might be a real silly question but i was just wanting to try to try the viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6717&hilit=grow+figs+quickly#p76349 and was wondering if that would be within the rules? appologies if this has previously been asked

[Pup]

What if I have a previously styled taller bonsai but I am going to chop down the trunk, removing all styled trunk and branches. So you are left with a piece of stock with some previous root work and a trunk chop, which is within the rules. Would that be allowed??

G'day Neal,

In order to keep it simple, no previous styling can have been done.

Regards,
Steven

Pup, your tree has a wire training a new leader on it ,,,Yes/no.
If yes then it would be the same as Neal's, same question/same answer..

No wire on it at all ever, before the trunk chop yes, not ever after, the trunk chop, so if it was entered it has had no other work, than the chop.
If you feel you can get a result in 14 months using this method fine but not before the 1st September.

[Craig]

So Pup, if i were to use the circled part of this tree after doing a chop(which is already done) i could enter it in the comp?? Was wired before chop, but never wired after the chop.

nz christmas tree1copy.JPG

[nealweb]

Actually i don't see the difference between what you have circled and a potted plant bought from the nursery and chopped down the same way. Its just a few inches of wood thats left. What was above it before is not there anyway. If you found the right pot plant you could make something identical. The only difference is ofcourse the root work and being already established in a bonsai pot, which is an advantage over a pot plant but then we were allowed rootwork so ...

But the comp is what the comp is and maybe its more fun to really try and start from scratch, just where to draw the line ??
Probablyy we could achieve better trees withinn the time frame if we could start with better stock, but maybe that is a different comp?

Anyhooow

Cheers all

n.

[Bretts]

I am all for as few rules as possible but find the rules here as far as stock a little nonsensical.

STOCK
Stock can be obtained from anywhere provided NO PRIOR STYLING has been done other than trunk chopping and root work. You can collect, purchase from a bonsai or general nursery, take a cutting/layer from an untrained tree or you may already own suitable stock. It just cannot have had any previous Styling! There is no price restriction and any species can be used.

When we trunk chop to style the tree we almost as a standard use wire to position the new leader. But now we have supplementary information from at least one mod that we can not have used wire? This begs the question what about wire that has been used to twist the trunk of saplings.
Also if you are going to chop the trunk as a standard you also chop back branches so that they do not become dominant over the new leader. You would be hard pressed to find stock from a bonsai nursery or our own collections that has not gone through this.
I find myself thinking back searching my memory whether I have ever put wire on trees I want to use even if it would have made no difference to the styling of branches in the entry. How do we know that stock we bought has never been wired.
"NO PRIOR STYLING has been done other than trunk chopping and root work" This suggests to me that trunk chopping is expected to be styling.

Then we have

Work can be done between 1st September 2011 and 31st October 2012. Final submissions and photographs must be submitted no later than Midnight EDST on 1st November 2012.

I would have thought the only work not allowed before the 1st of September is anything that does not come under the allowable stock. The reason being that normal timely practice could be to repot a tree or even dig it out of the ground or to trunk chop or hedge trim at this very moment.
So I could go and buy a tree from a bonsai nursery that has had this work done in the last week or so(whether I know or not) but if the tree is already in my collection I believe (from comments) it would be be deemed not allowed. Yet I was only doing what a bonsai nursery would be doing before I bought the stock.

Can't say I am sure what can be done to solve this except to say that if you want to have simple rules then I think you should try not to complicate them later with sub paragraphs

[kcpoole]

A little bit of commonsense in this would go a long way.

If one had a a tree that has a trunk that was shaped with wire, then it is inadmissable
If you have a Tree that is a Recycled existing Bonsai Then so long as you are prepared to chop off ALL material that has been shaped by wire ( cut off ALL Branches and then trunk chop back to a small trunk) then that would possibly be OK too ( on the proviso that the admins OK it).

If you went and bought a stock tree last week, re potted and pruned than that would be disqualified too

If you repotted a tree 2 months ago before the comp announced then that would be OK

Ken

[Steven]

A little bit of commonsense in this would go a long way.

Thanks Ken but it appears that commonsense is not that common

Brett,
I am not sure how I could be clearer however I will try. In the introduction I said;

The objective of the AusBonsai Shohin Progressive Styling Competition is to create the best possible Shohin sized bonsai from raw, untrained stock over a period of 14 months.

The key words here are "RAW" and "UNTRAINED". Raw meaning 'not processed, refined, or treated in any way'. Untrained meaning 'a plant, bush, or tree has not been made to grow in a particular way, e.g. by pruning, wiring or tying it.'
I also wrote;

Stock can be obtained from anywhere provided NO PRIOR STYLING has been done other than trunk chopping and root work.

The key words here are "NO PRIOR STYLING OTHER THAN TRUNK CHOPPING AND ROOT WORK". Styling meaning 'an instance of creating something, especially something artistic, in a particular or idiosyncratic way.' Trunk Chopping meaning 'an aggressive pruning typically on the trunk of a bonsai, which reduces the height of the trunk significantly. Chopping is not usually performed with an ax, it's just a figure of speech used to suggest radical pruning.' Root work meaning 'the reduction of the root system that occurs during the periodic repotting of a bonsai.'

Yes, I am aware that there are some entries that have or are close to breaking these rules and when I get time I will do something about it.

I would like to thank the AusBonsai Wiki for making it easy to search for the above definitions.

Regards,
Steven

[cre8ivbonsai]

If you went and bought a stock tree last week, re potted and pruned than that would be disqualified too

Hi Ken, just one clarification on your clarification rules state that root work is fine, I would assume this includes repotting? otherwise how do you do the root work? and a lot of deciduous tree would have to of been repotted during the last month anyway

Cheers, Ryan

ah thanks Steven for your clarification, so reading between the lines repotting should be ok

[Steven]

G'day Ryan,

Yes, root work AKA repotting is fine and acceptable at any time even before the official start of 1st September.

For those wanting further clarification on what is a trunk chop, please see [TUTORIAL] Trunk Chopping.

Regards,
Steven

[cre8ivbonsai]

Thanks Steven, that tutorial is a good one , I referenced it for the chop on my entry last weekend (entry coming soon ... just got to get pics off the camera )

[nealweb]

ok, hope i'm not becoming a pain but am still not sure if you will allow the tree I posted pics of on the previous page of this thread. I'm thinking maybe not?
I grow a basally dominant species. When i get a piece of stock from the nursery it will often have multiple trunks, I usually chop a couple off straight away leaving a couple behind to contemplate for future options and put it aside. Then its not really a case of a traditional trunk chop as it is of cutting to a trunk line, ie you pick the best of the remaining trunks and chop the others off (leaving a stub behind for a while) to leave that single trunk, this will best be accompanied by cutting the bigger side branches back to push energy into the new single trunk. (maybe this is the dubious part for this comp?) All this work was not done recently, it was at the end of June, before the comp was announced.
Anyhow, as I said either way is cool, just seeking some confirmation before I try to enter him
Cheers,
n.

[Pup]

OK, ONE LAST TRY.
If you look at Craig's post you will see the making's of a larger tree. He has decided that he wants to enter the competition.

So he perfoms a TRUNK CHOP at the point he has indicated. What he is then left with, is a new leader and a trunk to start to build his Shohin from. Nothing that is left, has had any work done yet.

I hope this settles what is a very simple answer, if what you are seeing at the start of the competition, has been shaped or wired, before the dates stated then it does not qualify.

Pup