TRUNK/TREE RATIO

[ozzy]

Mine are all gone too, the only thing left to do now is commit hari kari.

[anttal63]

Interesting analogy from someone who wasnt there and doesnt speak italian. pup???

Antonio, even if you speak Italian, things can get lost in translation, because of dialect amongst many other reasons... eg the second atomic bomb was dropped on Japan due to an incorreect translation of just 1 word. Not because the translator didnt know the language but had failed to translate the intent, that slip completely altered the translation and resulted in many thousands more suffering.

Matt

Ahhhhhhhhhh yep i think i remember reading that the interp on weekend got it wrong more than once, bless her lovely soul, she's a darling!

[anttal63]

I love my little trees

No they are all the wrong ratio and must be destroyed

you be right chris!!! Im gonna sacrafice mine instead

[anttal63]

Now come on lads where's all those sappling gum Bonsai that are gonna do it for us?

[Will_IslandBonsai]

Isn't it excellent that bonsai is art, and we can all enjoy different designs (and therefore not enjoy others). A lot of the northern hemishere trees I see in pictures I find squat and pretty ugly really. I really didn't like most of the images that Salvatore sceened. As I drove back down the highway towards Melbourne (from the conference), I drove by thousands and thousands of beautiful eucalypts. Just a fraction of what we have out there. These are the trees I love. These trees plus their mates, the Banksias, Wattles, Teatrees, Melaleucas etc etc etc, are the soul of a vast proportion of this wide brown land! Love em! And the vast majority are very slender. Slender, I like.

I'm planning to spend the rest of my a'bonsaing days continuing to work with the Australian flora, and to work towards designs that represent Australia's botanical image. I'm quite happy to let the northern hemishere design their trees as they see fit, and stick to their squat trunk/height ratios. (No sorry, maybe your trees do look like that in your wild places.....I just haven't seen them)

Maybe one day, a northern hemisphere conference will invite a guest speaker from Australia to speak at one of their conferences; not to show how well we've copied them, but to showcase our own trees, portrayed beautifully in Australian styles!!

[Amanda]

Isn't it excellent that bonsai is art, and we can all enjoy different designs (and therefore not enjoy others). A lot of the northern hemishere trees I see in pictures I find squat and pretty ugly really. I really didn't like most of the images that Salvatore sceened. As I drove back down the highway towards Melbourne (from the conference), I drove by thousands and thousands of beautiful eucalypts. Just a fraction of what we have out there. These are the trees I love. These trees plus their mates, the Banksias, Wattles, Teatrees, Melaleucas etc etc etc, are the soul of a vast proportion of this wide brown land! Love em! And the vast majority are very slender. Slender, I like.

I'm planning to spend the rest of my a'bonsaing days continuing to work with the Australian flora, and to work towards designs that represent Australia's botanical image. I'm quite happy to let the northern hemishere design their trees as they see fit, and stick to their squat trunk/height ratios. (No sorry, maybe your trees do look like that in your wild places.....I just haven't seen them)

Maybe one day, a northern hemisphere conference will invite a guest speaker from Australia to speak at one of their conferences; not to show how well we've copied them, but to showcase our own trees, portrayed beautifully in Australian styles!!

Absolutely Gold! While I may be relatively new to the art of bonsai, you spoke VOLUMES.

[Handy Mick]

Well done Will!

[anttal63]

Isn't it excellent that bonsai is art, and we can all enjoy different designs (and therefore not enjoy others). A lot of the northern hemishere trees I see in pictures I find squat and pretty ugly really. I really didn't like most of the images that Salvatore sceened. As I drove back down the highway towards Melbourne (from the conference), I drove by thousands and thousands of beautiful eucalypts. Just a fraction of what we have out there. These are the trees I love. These trees plus their mates, the Banksias, Wattles, Teatrees, Melaleucas etc etc etc, are the soul of a vast proportion of this wide brown land! Love em! And the vast majority are very slender. Slender, I like.

I'm planning to spend the rest of my a'bonsaing days continuing to work with the Australian flora, and to work towards designs that represent Australia's botanical image. I'm quite happy to let the northern hemishere design their trees as they see fit, and stick to their squat trunk/height ratios. (No sorry, maybe your trees do look like that in your wild places.....I just haven't seen them)

Maybe one day, a northern hemisphere conference will invite a guest speaker from Australia to speak at one of their conferences; not to show how well we've copied them, but to showcase our own trees, portrayed beautifully in Australian styles!!

Hey Will, nice to have met you on the weekend. Good for you on this wonderful sentiment! I too love the Australian Bush and its flora and hope to portray it one day. If we choose the right material and do it justice to choose an appropriate image that works as a tree in a pot, as some here have already, there is every chance that we will be asked to talk in the Northern Hemisphere. I look forward to see what you come up with.

[Pup]

I have already spoken at the Bonsai Kai in London, on the very subject of Australian tree's as Bonsai.

I have received a gift from them and been thanked for an interesting talk.

I am not an international demonstrator though. Just a humble West Australian whom, is passionate about our native tree's as Bonsai, in all there shapes and glory, like you will find on the great Ocean road, Wilson's promontory,Southern coast of West Australia, the Pilbarra and the Kimberly's.

cheers Pup

[Will_IslandBonsai]

Good on ya, Pup.....you're an true blue, Aussie bonsai ambassador!

I believe you've got a serious conference over your way 2011.

I'm saving!

[Pup]

Good on ya, Pup.....you're an true blue, Aussie bonsai ambassador!

I believe you've got a serious conference over your way 2011.

I'm saving!

Thanks Will, I look forward to meeting a like minded Australian Bonsai enthusiast.

Cheers Pup

[Bretts]

Aussie native or exotic tree I think there is nothing wrong with any of the ratio's at least upto 1:12 such as the example from Walter and others. No one was saying that Gum trees should be 1:25 only looking at trees compared to bonsai with an open mind. In fact the consensus was that it would be so difficult only the most talented could make it work if at all. This is where progression will come from. Not misinterpreting a foreign demonstrator in a way that obviously makes no sense and calling it the new movement. Anyone that thinks there is only one way and that is less than 1:4 tell us what they think about and what should be done with the masterpieces such as I have shown in this thread that do not fit under 1:4.
The question has been posed since the start of the thread and still no understanding of how these trees fit into the only under 1:4 movement!

I for one think the ratio rule is consistent with our natives just as they are with the exotics. The difference will be in the branch movement and such just as it is in other various species.
I find it perplexing or maybe amusing is a better word how scared people are to put a ruler to a tree as though it is going to take away their artistic integrity. Putting a ruler to a natural tree and comparing it to masterpiece bonsai is not going take away any artistic ability to set balance and such. It is only analyzing information given instead of following blindly!

[chrisatrocky]

Antonio, if you like short squat trees, you use the ratio theory, and they are impressive but it doesn't suit all bonsai and deffinatelly doesn't suit all bonsai artist.

[quote]How dare we disrespect this man, How dare we question his experience[/quote
Nobody disrespected Salvatore, nobody questioned his experience, how ever we did question his ratio theory, and we have every right to if we believe it is wrong. we are not sheep we don't follow blindly because of one mans opinion. Sorry and your opinion. Fashion, fad what ever you want to call it, its not progress it just comes and goes, and hopfully this one want take off. there is no evidence of this trend in Europe from what I have seen from such sites as 'bonsai4me' , 'kaizenbonsai.com' and Walter Pall's site. There is no evidence from the gallery you posted(look at the length of the trunks, your eye tells you how high the tree is). So don't tell us that Australian bonsai depends on adopting this one mans fad. I have seen it all before, not in bonsai but in my other pastimes. A notable and reknowned producer gets a set on one certain aspect of their product and starts promoting that aspect above all others. Because of of their reknown others followed. In 2 years the aspects they were not promoting were deminished or lost. I would hate to see this happen to Australian bonsai, we can't afford to take any steps back as we have just started going forward.

[Jarrod]

Just bringing it back to perspective again, take a photo of a tree from 1km away, then from as close as you can go with out losing sight of the top of the tree and you will notice that the ratios will be different. Sorry but I say perspective first, proportion second. JMHO.

[Rhiannon]

Are you guys actually telling me that one of the most prominent artists in europe, who has studied under the most influential master of all times,(KIMURA) and still stays in touch with him on a regular basis to chew the fat. Are you guys telling me he has got it wrong?

Just my 2 cents...

I can't speak for anyone, but this is my general interpretation from reading the thread. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that this is the lesson I gained from reading the posts.

Anyway, for me the point was not that Salvatore was wrong. The point I got out of it is that it's not the only way of doing bonsai and that others will prefer a different taste. His ratios can help produce better bonsais, but other times won't suit the design nor the artists personal taste.

I don't think anyone can ever say he is wrong, because isn't this all just personal artistic opinion anyway? But equally I think no one can say anyone who prefers different ratios are wrong, either.


For me, it all comes down to whether I like to look at the tree. Maybe that's naive, but I am naive to bonsai in comparison to you all anyway.

I like some short squat ones, and I like some of the taller, thinner ones. Equally, I dislike other trees from both categories. I personally would like to have a go at both styles. But that's just because I get bored with repetition. I like variety.