AusBonsai

Maybe a little too festive last night

The life span of trees is a very intriguing subject Guy. It is very true that the faster growing trees generally have a shorter life span. The reasons for a trees death are some where between cell degradation just like us and they eventually get to tall for themselves to economically transport that far. It seems they [scientists] are not entirely sure but some of the very long lived trees seem to have no cell degradation and this research is where the study of ourselves living forever may be fruitful. I would love to quiz some one knowledgeable in this for their opinion on cuttings.
I am by no means any authority to say but I do believe that it would be species specific and that growing the tree faster would not shorten the life span of the tree. I think it not entirely correct to say we are forcing the tree to grow fast but only allowing it to grow faster by giving it what it wants.

Bretts wrote:Maybe a little too festive last night

I think it not entirely correct to say we are forcing the tree to grow fast but only allowing it to grow faster by giving it what it wants.

I think your are correct here bretts, The tree will only grow as fast as it can, not any faster. If you have two trees the same and feed one and not the other then you are not making one grow faster but in fact slowing the other down by not providing what it needs. If you start using growth hormones and artificial chemicals then that may be different.

Josh

Stewart_Toowoomba wrote:Hi BM

I have managed to resize my photos and here they are. I think the lower trunks look a little different in bark structure so they may be different species of Banksia.

What do you think?

Copy of banksia1.JPG

Copy of Banksia 1a.JPG

Copy of Banksia 2a.JPG

Copy of Banksia foliage.JPG

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Thanks

stew

no one answered which Banksia they appear to be and I would say integrifolia.

Great thread.

grant

Not a great shot just a quick snap with the phone between drinks, just letting it grow out since repotting so it grows lots of roots again.
This may not be amazing growth for some but for me this is very very strong growth for figs in my cold winters. No other fig has progressed so well.

Guy wrote:I have read that generally the quicker the plant grows the shorter the lifespan-possibly something to do with size and configuration of cells-if so would this be species specific or for all plants----------just wondering if forcing fast growth early could affect the "solidity" of the basic structure of the tree--------any thoughts?

This is something I have wondered about myself from time to time. I do not know the answer, but I have come up with my own thoughts on the matter. Most of the trees I grow in Bonsai culture have a life span of over a hundred years, some thousands of years. Humans have a life span of about 80 odd years, give or take. I am, as of a week ago 61 years young. Do the math!!!

One interesting thing about rapid growth that was pointed out to me years ago by a good friend who lived in Sydney. I owned my Nursery in Darwin at the time and had taken to growing a few Junipers for the local Bonsai Tragics. I had a few hundred J. Procumbans nana and a like number of J. Squamata growing, which were 2 years old when said friend visited Darwin for a AABC Visiting Tutor Weekend. Anyhow, she was roaming around the Nursery looking for something to use for her Demo when she spoted the Junipers. When told the age of the stock she was excited and thought they were equivelant to 6 or 8 year old stock grown in Sydney. I had done nothing special with them, other than put them up into large pots. As I said, they were destined to be chopped up by Bonsai nuts only and I really didn't think there was much of a future for them in Darwin. (I got that bit wrong, but thats another story, surfice to say some of you Sydney people might have some of those trees in your own collections now ) Anyhow, said lady grabbed a couple of the larger ones, which she took along to use. During her demo on one of the trees, which had a trunk of around 25-30mm or so, she commented on how easy the trees were to bend and she was doing bends she didn't think possible with stock that size. She showed how to use raffia during the first demo, but during the second tree she didn't bother as she wanted to see what would happen.
After she returned to Sydney I got into a few of the trees and did some pre-training with them and like her, found them incredibly easy to bend into some fairly sharp angles. My inquiries failed to give any reasons for this to happen, but a couple of years later I was speaking to my friend about the junipers and she said they became as hard to bend as any of her other stock after a few years of living in Sydney and that growth was about the same as her other stack as well.
It was our assumtion from all of that, the faster growth I achieved in Darwin had caused longer cell growth, resulting in more bendable wood. Fact or fiction, I do not know. I do not think I have found any difference in the "Bendability" of any Ficus I have grown using the method outlined here.

Thought I better get in and select some branches on this one.

Going to give this a try on a young ficus retusa though I have to question the need for the bottom layers of fertiliser? The way I see it is that with the amount of water & drainage, this layer will be gone very quickly, without the plant being able to make ANY use of it. So it would appear to me to be a complete waste...



cheers

Oops, just seen this question so sorry it took so long to give you my answer mate.

No, the bottom layer of fert isn't wasted. Everything placed in the box is slow release, so while some of the solids (OK, a lot of the solids) are eroded out the bottom, most of the salts are held in suspension by the inorganic compound (the grit). Also, as you will find when you repot the tree, there is a lot more than Chook Poo in those little pellets. Pelletised manure is made from manure collected from battery hen houses. and the floors of those hen houses is coated in a layer of sawdust. I'll say no more . That sawdust becomes compost over time and compost usually exibits a fair degree of Cation Exchange capability, so once again there is a further salts storage capacity within the box. Adding a good measure of Zeolite is also said to further increase the Cation Exchange Capacity as well.

Now, also remember we are going to be adding chook poo to the top of the box as well so there will be a constant flow of goodness to the roots. I tend to feel the composting chook poo within the box also has a buffering effect for the roots of the tree, keeping them at a more even temperature level during the days, but that is just my thoughts. I have found trees grow better in the Styro boxes than in black plasitc tubs that I have also tried, so maybe my theory has merit.

Good luck with your Retusa.

Sorry I am weighing into this thread very late in the piece but I wanted to make a comment on a post put up by Graeme in december last year. Re field growing versus boxes. While I couldn't agree more with you about heavy feeding in boxes I have to disagree with your commends on field growing. Any species of tree which is put in the ground is going to put on very strong straight growth thats inevitable. The key to success with field growing is the strategic positioning of sacrifice branches and hard pruning. While I don't have any experience of field growing ficus I can't imagine the techniques involved would be any different to other vigorous tree species.
With the roots you would need to completely remove the very strong roots during the annual lift and root prune. In terms of the trunk its important to cut any strong untapered growth hard then regrow, often. Gaining the eventual height of a tree takes much the same time either growing method but obtaining good girth is so much quicker in the ground and the constant heavy pruning makes for great trunk texture and movement once the scars have healed.
I have seen pictures of vast fields of ficus being field grown in southern China.
Craigw

You could very well be right craig, very right indeed.

Thank you for your comment, which by the way could never be to late.

Thanks Graeme
Craigw

Anyone know if small Olives like this method? I potted one up using this recipe yesterday. As I said, a small one, maybe only 12mm diameter. Will post pics tomorrow

Graeme wrote: ...
Now over the grit spread a layer of Pellitized Chook Poo (you know the one) To measure out this layer I use a 100mm flower pot and I put 4 of them in.
Now put 2 pots of Blood and Bone over the Chook Poo, followed by 2 pots of Pelletised slow release fertiliser (again you should know the one).
Lightly mix the three layers together, trying not to disturb the grit layer. (you need that it place to hold all the fertiliser in place, otherwise it will just run straight out the drainage holes when you water)
...

Lol, In Hedland we call this a Palm-bomb! Mind you, we don't use the lino and we don't put them into Styrofoam boxes! Suddenly … "BOOM, Baby!" it doubles in size for the next two ~ three years...

… now back to studying this subject …

Raymond wrote:Anyone know if small Olives like this method? I potted one up using this recipe yesterday. As I said, a small one, maybe only 12mm diameter. Will post pics tomorrow

Please let us know, Raymond. I've just received one for Christmas and am considering putting it into this … looks like you have a head start and can help me make a better decision …

Just re-visiting:
It's been almost 11 months since the last post on this thread...
Anyone have any positive (or negative) progress reports...??
I've had mixed results: some catastrophic failures, some good gains...