Cedar layer

[alpineart]

Hi MattA , these results from a layer , even better . They sulk a bit after layering , whats the secret .

Cheers Alpine

[MattA]

The layer is only 10mths off the mother, no sulking & no secrets, all the information on this trees creation can be found by reading what has already been posted.

I find the idea of keeping a secret in our art rather offensive but I know many who do...

[kcpoole]

Nice tree Matt and well done.
I have never been able to keep any Cedar alive here, so envy you
What is it potted in? All mine were before i started to use diatomite, so maybe I should try again

Ken

[MattA]

Thanks Ken, its in gravel, akadama & potting mix, I cant give the proportions as it was mainly reclaimed mix but I would guesstimate the gravel to be about 40-50% of the mix. Deodar is the most forgiving of all cedar and once you get a handle on how hard you have to be with the pruning they are a real joy to have on the bench, have a go

[Mojo Moyogi]

Matt, I can't help thinking that the majority of branches on this tree, while they have helped build the trunk, are now too heavy in proportion to the trunk to make a convincing shohin. I cant tell if you have any young shoots in there to use and begin the branching again or not, but that's what I would be doing.

Cheers,
Mojo

[MattA]

Mojo, I agree with you regarding the branch size but luckily deodara not only buds back well on old wood but I also have the shoots & dormant buds at the base of each branch to start them again. However, I am seeing a much smaller tree that would remove all of the oversized branching and also be more in keeping with the roots under it

[Mojo Moyogi]

Good to hear Matt, glad some of the AusBonsai members have the stones to what is necessary regarding oversize branches. I look forward to a progression, perhaps in the Shohin forum.

Cheers,
Mojo

[MattA]

There will only be 1 branch to worry about & if anything it is a bit undersized to give nice flow to the taper.

If the mods want to move this to the shohin forum thats fine with me...

[Dario]

Hi Matt, I really like this cedar layer and I am interested to know more about the smaller option that you are leaning towards creating
Is it a case of waiting till the tree is ready to have the work done to see it (ie:too hard to explain now with all that foliage?), or are you able to give an idea of the outcome?
Cheers, Dario.

[MattA]

Dario,
I wanted to wait until it got fired up again & also to see what extra backbudding I would get. The next stage complete now it needs to grow a while before another round of butchery...

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[bodhidharma]

Wow, someones had fun. I imagine the bottom branch will go and is there to keep the trunk thickening and vigor in the tree

[MattA]

Wow, someones had fun. I imagine the bottom branch will go and is there to keep the trunk thickening and vigor in the tree

Always have fun with my trees... At the moment its to help keep the juices flowing & also to thicken ahead of either jinning or chopping back to it as a continuation of the trunk line. If I keep the whole height I will need to remove the last thickish branch in the apex but it is also being left to help heal wounds & keep the juices going...

[Dario]

Nice one Matt
That sure is a chunky base. I look forward to seeing it grow nice and strong from here.
This will be fun to watch!
Cheers, Dario.

[Neli]

Dear Matt,
I am in Zambia. Last month I went to South Africa, and bought a cedrus deodora, around 2m high, but being a newbie bought one which had its lower (70cm from base) branches chopped up.
I left it is SA with a friend so I can sort out the permits and bring it home.
Someone told me that it is a waste of time. Cedar never back buds...So I was thinking of grafting...or just not bringing it to Zambia since so much effort will be needed , and not sure if it is worth it for a problem tree.
Trunk base is 6-7cm.
What would you advise...can it be saved...trained...by a newbie? Should I bring it home...or just leave it there? What can be done with it?

[MattA]

Neli,
Is it hard to find this species in Zambia? if so I would make the effort, they can be a very rewarding species.
Without seeing the tree it is hard to comment about its possibilities but on decription alone a few ideas come to mind..

Chop it 20-30cm above the first branch & slowly create a shari running down the trunk like lightning has struck it & then build a simple cloud out of the one branch. OR A very tall literati with all the branches hanging almost vertically, the weight of snow pushing them down each season yet the trunk has continued to push straight up for light.

If you have a particular design in mind grafting will guarantee branches exactly where you want them, I would go for inarch grafts so the folilage is all identical. Backbudding will depend on age of wood & location on tree. In trees growing around suburbia I have seen marked backbudding after heavy lopping in the upper parts of the tree but not on lower limbs, this habit seems to slow as the tree ages. In potted specimens it is most likely to occur on wood under 10yrs old, it is not guaranteed but if the tree is strong healthy & in an active growing cycle it is possible to trigger dormant buds by defoliating the whole branch and removing the strong current season shoots completely. Only do one branch at a time and ensure maximum light to the branch you want to bud.

Look forward to hearing & seeing more if you decide to go ahead with moving it home. They grow fairly fast in the ground so you could always try your hand with some seed