Japanese Pots.

Kelv · Post by **Kelv** » May 30th, 2009, 6:48 pm

That first green tray looks... amazing.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » May 31st, 2009, 11:26 am

Without being able to see the first trays stamp clearly its difficult but i am sure i have the same pot at home... I`ll check when i get back.

Pots 2 and 6 are by Kouyu, you can compare them with the second Kouyu pot i posted and see the glazes and signitures are the same.

Then i think 5, 7, and 8 are again Yamafusa.

Hope that helps......

They are some nice pots.....

DavidN · Post by **DavidN** » June 1st, 2009, 8:43 am

Thanks jow, for the feedback. I found I have a couple of otherwise but these have trees in them. Their signitures look different so I hope to post here at another time for your expert ID.
Thanks again.

David N

Shane · Post by **Shane** » June 3rd, 2009, 8:17 pm

Hi Jow,
You mentioned the differences in clay and suitability for bonsai. Could you elaborate a bit, please?
Do you have a preference for stoneware or earthenware firing for bonsai pots? Do Japanese bonsai potters opt mainly for one over the other?

cheers,

spooky.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » June 4th, 2009, 10:59 am

I am by no means an expert on pottery, in fact i know little about it so the following answer will be using all the wrong terms and phrases and will be `my` understanding of what i was told in the nursery. Also bear in mind that my understanding comes from a half Japanese half English explanation so this probably adds to the cloudiness...

That being said, what i was talking about was the quality of the clay when fired. If you look at a range of pots you will notice that there is a great difference in the properties of the clays once fired. They can range from mirror smooth fine clays, almost like plastic, to almost looking like sand barely held together.

What you want to encourage good root growth is air. Pottery is porous. Pots with mirror or dense finishes in the clay (often cheaper pots are like this) will not allow air and moisture to pass through them as easily as more open clays. So if you are after a pot that makes for optimum conditions for your roots choose a pots that `breathes` well (more open clay). If you have a pot with a plasticy type finish don't worry, a open potting mix should be fine, but to have the same mix in a more breathable pot is optimum.

This is probably most important with glazed pots as the only surface of the pot that can breath is the bottom (usually unglazed) so you have a far smaller area than that of an unglazed pot.

Hope that helps,

Shane · Post by **Shane** » June 6th, 2009, 6:21 pm

Thanks Jow,

I think I already knew that the answer was breathable pots (but didn't want to admit it to myself because our pottery studio only has glazes available for stoneware), but it's nice to have someone else tell you sometimes. Earthenware firing is probably preferable for bonsai pots, because that's the firing that leaves pottery porous; and lighter too. Stoneware firing is not porous, hence we have dishes in the kitchen that can hold food etc. It is also a heavier, stronger finish.

At the moment I just don't think I can afford to go out and buy a whole lot of earthenware glazes. I think I'll have to stick with adding extra wiring and drainage holes in my pots and doing stoneware firing (and yes, folks I know I haven't posted any photos yet, I'm slack).

"Grog" refers to particles in the clay that can give a rougher texture. The clay my wife and I threw in Tokoname when we were there last Feb was very groggy. Awesome finish to the pieces, but hard on the hands when throwing.

cheers,

S.

Pat K · Post by **Pat K** » June 6th, 2009, 10:03 pm

Hi Guys,

I'm coming in late here but for what it's worth here are my views on the subject of 'breatheable' pots and bonsai.

Earthenware pots are porous and will absorb water. This is fine until the first sign of a frost and the absorbed water expands, shattering the pot.
Stoneware is 'virtually' impervious to water (and equally impervious to the tranference of air) so doesn't suffer the same fate as the earthenware pot. I do believe that coarse clay has benefits for the bonsaist but only as it provides a keyed surface for the roots to grip.
Roots are not going to breathe through vitrified stoneware!!!

Pat

Jow · Post by **Jow** » June 7th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Pat, this may be a stupid question but......

Are terracotta pots earthen ware or stone ware?

Pat K · Post by **Pat K** » June 7th, 2009, 2:06 pm

Jow, as you know, the only stupid question is the question that's not asked.

Eartenware is made from a type of clay that, because of it's chemical make-up, can only be low fired. It remains porous even though it's fired to its optimum temperature. If fired beyond this temp. the pot is likely to slump and melt.....ouch!, kiln shelves are very expensive!!!

Terracotta is earthenware clay with the same restrictions as above, however, due to a high iron content the fired clay has the characteristic red colour that makes it so attractive. Earthenware (and terracotta) pots are generally fired to 1100-1150*C.

Stoneware pottery is manufactured from a more robust clay, ranging from very smooth, almost porcelain like, to coarse textured, heavily grogged clays which includes the raku type clays. This clay reaches vitrification at about 1300*C and is generally considered to be impervious to water, however, some absorption can occur, up to about 4% in some clays.....that may be too much in a very cold climate like Canberra!!

Pat

Jow · Post by **Jow** » June 26th, 2009, 6:40 pm

Thanks for that Pat. Sorry for the late reply but i only just found this thread again.

There were a number of chinese pots i saw in japan that had basically flaked the glazed off under the winter snows. Was this due to water absorbtion in the clay and then the water turning to ice and expanding? A lotof raw material was grown in terracotta pots that i am pretty sure absorbs alot of water. (i once had a pig made of terracotta which you could grow sprowts on. yo filled it with water and placed seed on the outside). What makes the chinese bonsai pots crack and flake where the terracotta pots exposed to the same weather not crack or break?

Pat K · Post by **Pat K** » July 2nd, 2009, 10:07 pm

Jow wrote:What makes the chinese bonsai pots crack and flake where the terracotta pots exposed to the same weather not crack or break?

Search me, Jow!
Maybe they seal their pots to make them impervious to water, or maybe what appears to be terracotta, isn't terracotta at all?

Jow · Post by **Jow** » July 2nd, 2009, 10:13 pm

Pat K wrote: or maybe what appears to be terracotta, isn't terracotta at all?

That could very easily be the case.....

JayP · Post by **JayP** » November 8th, 2009, 11:05 pm

ohhh

if only i could source pots like these!!

JayP · Post by **JayP** » November 9th, 2009, 2:54 am

Jow would you have or know anyone with tese kind of pots for sale?

NathanM · Post by **NathanM** » November 9th, 2009, 9:42 am

I really like quality Japanese pots. I saw alot when I was over there! I'm looking at bring quite a few in very soon =) Just waiting to hear back from my contact for shipping.

AusBonsai

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