Juniper, first styling.

Sean M · Post by **Sean M** » January 23rd, 2013, 9:52 pm

"Its better to know why you kill one tree than guess and kill one hundred".
Some old codger said that at one point.
If you have the knowledge and push the limits, your tree has a much greater survival rate. Not saying I havent made mistakes but I do like to ensure any plant I have paid money for is going to be with me for as long as possible.

anttal63 · Post by **anttal63** » January 24th, 2013, 4:56 am

sean.mitchell1 wrote:"Its better to know why you kill one tree than guess and kill one hundred".
Some old codger said that at one point.
If you have the knowledge and push the limits, your tree has a much greater survival rate. Not saying I havent made mistakes but I do like to ensure any plant I have paid money for is going to be with me for as long as possible.

If you kill 100 please give it up !!! Some trees dont deserve to live a day let alone a life time how ever its ok to go in and smash your first few as long as you do learn from them !!!

Sean M · Post by **Sean M** » January 24th, 2013, 4:12 pm

anttal63 wrote:If you kill 100 please give it up !!!

I can't promise anything.

But that's what I love about this place, if you don't know something, someone will tell you. If you ask.

Jag01 · Post by **Jag01** » January 24th, 2013, 7:50 pm

LLK wrote:Jason,
You have taken off at a run while barely being able to walk, bonsai knowledge-wise. At least that's the impression I get. Let's see: do you know what species of juniper you have bought, and what its growth requirements are? Have you had a look at the surface roots, and the root ball generally?You went for bark removal on a trunk without taking into account that it is much too soon for that. The branches on your tree have terminal tufts of foliage at the end of long rat tails that have been carefully wired, whereas you should be concentrating on building up the foliage closer to the trunk and strengthening the branching. Do you know what kind of pruning is required for this? Have you had a good look at the main trunk and thought of how to create a taper? And a lot more questions.....

Sure, you do have to think of the style that would suit this tree, but you can't skip the first, most essential steps. Read http://www.bonsai4me.com/ It's a website that's as good as a top class bonsai book. See especially the Bonsai Basics and the Species Guide --> Junipers.

The things I've mentioned are no fun to say, but they just have to be said by someone, sometime.

Lisa

Really ?

and how is Jason's effort so much worse or less educated than this? Clearly having all the bonsai knowledge in the world doesn't teach humility, respect or ensure a good eye for styling.

I will agree with one thing you have said Lisa, sometimes some things just have to be said!

Jasonb · Post by **Jasonb** » January 24th, 2013, 8:06 pm

Ok everyone, this has turned into some what of a boxing match, and is absolutely not what I intended by opening the subject on my tree. Lisa has made some very valuable points towards the future development of this tree by forwarding the link. And those who backed her up have just as much right to do so.

Cheers Lisa, and crew.

I will be reading up a lot on the requirements needed to help this tree grow strong, fill out, and thicken up to the best of my ability and will be sure to keep you all posted as the tree progresses.

Regards Jason.

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » January 24th, 2013, 8:40 pm

Jasonb wrote:Ok everyone, this has turned into some what of a boxing match, and is absolutely not what I intended by opening the subject on my tree. Lisa has made some very valuable points towards the future development of this tree by forwarding the link. And those who backed her up have just as much right to do so.

Cheers Lisa, and crew.

I will be reading up a lot on the requirements needed to help this tree grow strong, fill out, and thicken up to the best of my ability and will be sure to keep you all posted as the tree progresses.

Regards Jason.

It's all about filtering =D People always disagree and argue and talk and provide advice! You just gotta learn to filter the bad from the good.

I find this tree to have plenty of potential and as long as you make some good decisions, look at the long term future of the tree and above all keep up the health of the tree - you'll be laughing mate.

(p.s. I would look up some bending techniques if you want to make this work as a twin trunk - go for what you want or you'll end up with a tree that could've been).

-Mo

Jasonb · Post by **Jasonb** » January 24th, 2013, 8:48 pm

Cheers Mo,

Already putting some movement in the main trunk. Hopefully I can get enough to make it work.

Jason

Shane · Post by **Shane** » January 24th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Hi Jason, I'd like to try to reply to your question without assuming your level of knowledge or experience. It's this juniper's first styling, not necessarily yours; especially as neither number of posts to nor the wording of a single post to ausbonsai is a sufficient criterion for judging either.

To respond your original question about have you missed anything, can I ask more about your future intentions for the tree as a twin trunk?
My own feeling with your initial styling is that the tree has two directions, instead of one direction for both trunks. That is, the bases of both trunks go in opposite directions, as does the line of both trunks, and the direction of the apexes. Twin trunks often work best when at least one of these factors head in the same direction, binding the design together. For my choice I like the rhs trunk and direction more, and would suggest you might consider shortening the left hand side trunk to then encourage rhs direction or at the very least introducing a sharp bend to the right. I don't think bending the rhs trunk left would work as well, as the lhs would remain straight. (Bend first, chop if it doesn't suit). There is also a heavy branch low on the lhs trunk curving upwards, in between the two trunks. I think this looks unnatural in this upward position, as such a branch is either a third trunk (no) or would naturally grow behind the rhs trunk off to the right. Can you bend it down easily?

Hope these thoughts helps you progress your design. Thanks for sharing your tree.
Cheers Shane.

Bonsai was supposed to keep me away from the computer; so I got a smart phone to take outside to my trees.

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » January 24th, 2013, 9:07 pm

Sorry abt the quality.. Also i think my brain grew a third trunk from nowhere. Was actually studying and flipped over my clinic manual to draw this on

LLK · Post by **LLK** » January 24th, 2013, 9:50 pm

Hi all,

Compliments to a lot of people here who have contributed positive food for thought on this thread! See especially the two last posts of spookybonsai and MoGanic.

I wasn't intending to post anything further here, but Jago1 tried to prove a point regarding my styling knowledge by taking an illustration out of my thread "Shimpaku headache" of November 11 2012 and incorporating it into his own post without explanation and acknowledgement. Not only is this very rude, it is also quite incorrect, and I wonder if the forum rules allow it. Anyway, here is the link to my thread, and the photo appropriated by Jago1 can be seen in its proper context:
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=13502

Lisa

Jasonb · Post by **Jasonb** » January 25th, 2013, 2:37 pm

Spooky,

Do you mean I should mimic the direction of the rhs trunk with the Los trunk or just bring it a little closer in so as not to be running away from each other? Or do you think it would look better along mo's line with the picture. ( cheers by the way:) talented artist mate )

Regards Jason.

bodhidharma · Post by **bodhidharma** » January 25th, 2013, 4:39 pm

It would also be a good idea to familiarise yourself with Raffia wrapping to assist in heavy bending. Juni's cambium splits and comes apart with heavy wiring and bending and the raffia will assist the process. Go slowly and bend it over a short period and not all in one hit. Good effort first up. I will use this post to say i am also ticked off with newby's breezing in and trampling on long time posters and their advice. They should learn to ease themselves into the process and show us what they have first before shooting from the mouth. Through this whole thread you have been respectful Jason and some people could learn from your attitude.

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » January 25th, 2013, 4:57 pm

bodhidharma wrote:It would also be a good idea to familiarise yourself with Raffia wrapping to assist in heavy bending. Juni's cambium splits and comes apart with heavy wiring and bending and the raffia will assist the process. Go slowly and bend it over a short period and not all in one hit. Good effort first up. I will use this post to say i am also ticked off with newby's breezing in and trampling on long tome posters and their advice. They should learn to ease themselves into the process and show us what they have first before shooting from the mouth. Through this whole thread you have been respectful Jason and some people could learn from your attitude.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Shane · Post by **Shane** » January 25th, 2013, 7:55 pm

Hi Jason, I meant you might bend the lhs trunk over so the apex has a rhs direction; if you can make the trunk lines also match that could only enhance the harmony between the trunks, but I expect the lhs trunk is too thick now to get more than one bend, even with rafia, unless you cut it back and lift a new leader. You might get more of a 'mother and son' feeling if you can dramatically bend the lhs side over to the right. Cheers Shane

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » January 25th, 2013, 9:15 pm

Jasonb wrote: Or do you think it would look better along mo's line with the picture. ( cheers by the way:) talented artist mate )

Regards Jason.

Thanks =D not so much talented haha i can barely keep the green in my own outlines... As long as it helped you a little I'm content.

Good luck!

AusBonsai