AusBonsai

Jow wrote:I always find it interesting that people are generally ok with the abstracted, distilled shapes of deadwood junipers but then have issues when deciduous trees start to develop into more abstract representations. I like it and would love to own something similar.

The skill in creating something with a nebari that wide yet trunk so thin is nothing short of amazing.

Quite true! it is a feet of horticultural artistry. I'm interested to know technique they use to achieve flare the nebari with no major roots? is it due to growing in a shallow pot all it's life, with continual pruning of larger roots?

Deadwood junipers are a different situation to this, in my opinion. In junipers, while the shapes may be extreme, there is always a sense of proportion at work. In this the "skill" is just technical, and doesn't enhance the design. Bigger is not necessarily better.

The result does't appear to me abstract or distilled- it's just disjointed. The nebari doesn't match/suit/harmonise with the tree. But to each his own. The tree itself is brilliant, with a gracefully fluid design and branches that are not only well-ramified (a technical skill) but also beautiful in every detail.

Thanks for posting, it's certainly provocative!

Gavin

is bad art still art

At $4000 it would not be considered expensive in Japan by any stretch of the imagination. That said this tree has some real character and I agree with Jow, would be a great addition to a garden in Aus (preferably mine over Jow's) as it will develope over the coming years. I think this is just stage one in a process and the tree needs to now move from the nabari maker to the tree maker to enable it to continue its journey.

Jow wrote:Well, the comments in this thread beg to ask another question.

Is bonsai simply making miniature models of real trees?

I tend to believe that they are art works depicting different people's interpretations of the feelings that trees give them. They don't have to be exact shrunk down copies, they can be completely un-tree like as long as they convey a feeling of tree or environment etc.

To highlight one aspect be it first branch, thick trunk or even huge nebari etc are all relevant approaches in my book.

Thoughts?

Now you have hit on Bonsai art philosophy. And there is no right answer. Personally yes I most love bonsais that look like very real miniature trees. But this is not a rule. Art's purpose is not easy defined. It can be used to arouse emotions, male a political statement, express experiences, push social and cultural boundaries etc. the very abstract junipers often work because they express a powerful feeling.

As I said above I'm much more with the Naturalistic style because these are the trees I love best. This is why I hate this tree. I also do not see it saying or expressing anything other than 'look how big you can make a nebari'. But then again maybe your eyes and mind pick up more than mine. I see breakfast.

I am with Joe, this is an astonishing achievement, as someone who endeavours to grow deciduous trees with wide nebari I can only begin to imagine how long it would take to grow a tree like this.
Bonsai is an art form and like any other it should have both natural and abstract forms.
Craigw

Looked like someone had dropped a bucket of PVA glue onto the tree.


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See what happens when you leave your trees out in the full sun for too long...THEY MELT...

Not my cup of tea...

Gav

Who poured concrete on this awesome tree

That is Trident Maple Bonsai at it's Finest..Outstanding and worth every penny..

cre8ivbonsai wrote: Quite true! it is a feet of horticultural artistry.

Quote of the day: a "feet" of horticultural artistry indeed.

bodhidharma wrote:I am sure the tree or upwards trunk line will grow into it. Give it another twenty or so years. Good forward thinking i reckon.

I think you're right Bodhi and maybe it's not that long either. IMO, the angle the photographer took was not complimentary to the tree. I think it has a better, gradual taper than what you first see.
Fantastic nebari. I'm glad people here don't seem to like that style. It means if anything like that comes on the market here, there will be fewer people bidding!

Art creates discussion and this is page 2. It works as art even if it doesn't work for you personally.

If it was $40, instead of $4,000. I wonder how the discussion would change. I see things I would change and the direction I want it to head, I don't think the price tag comes with a complete tree but what work had been done to the tree.

maple wrote:I'm glad people here don't seem to like that style. It means if anything like that comes on the market here, there will be fewer people bidding!

Unfortunately that lack of demand also leads to lack of supply....

As to the tree, me wanty wanty....

time8theuniverse wrote: Art creates discussion and this is page 2. It works as art even if it doesn't work for you personally.

that Sort sums it up for me

Do I like it? No its not for me, but i can appreciate it still.
I do not particularly like Literati or "sumo" trees either, but to not appreciate the work or skill will be doing oneself a disservice. the level of skill require and displayed, and the artistic affect stads on its own.

Thanks for post Jow, a thought provoking discussion. You can have it on your bench, and I i'll come and have a look

Ken