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Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 16th, 2009, 8:42 pm
by Bretts
Thanks for the Info Alpine and I am looking forward to the pics. I don't think that the taper will be an issue as the negative taper was caused by branches that are now removed. I am thinking I will give the roots a good work over this year which would consist of removing all downward growing roots and splaying out the lateral roots and giving a light trim to the weak ones and a harder prune to the dominant ones. There is a some what problem root at the back that I will prune back very hard and push it to ramify close to the surface over the next few years. As the swamp cypress is a fast grower I am expecting this to fix the small issue left from the whorl branches. I will keep this technique in mind if it continues to be an issue. I have seen plenty of pictures of these with massive taper but that is not what I am looking for in this tree. I would rather a more natural Dawn Redwood style as I said middle aged and elegant.
Maybe a cross between this
DawnRedwoodRichmond.jpg
And this
roots.jpg
The growing technique sounds interesting. I am thinking that if I was to head down that road then I may do a constant flow of water technique that was developed for willow which keeps the roots growing in the pot instead of out in the water tray or bowl as you mention.
The new developments are mainly concerned with a gravity fed drip watering system that continually has water flowing through the soil instead of sitting the pot in water.
You will find how I do it here.
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=1298&hilit=willow
I would rather stay away from sitting the tree in water. As you can see by the great autumn colour it has been very healthy growing in a pot without a water tray before I got it. I would rather keep it that way and if Harry is saying that is the best way then I will try that first.
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 16th, 2009, 9:20 pm
by alpineart
I would rather stay away from sitting the tree in water. As you can see by the great autumn colour it has been very healthy growing in a pot without a water tray before I got it. I would rather keep it that way and if Harry is saying that is the best way then I will try that first.[/quote]
Hi Mate , Harry and Walter live in the northern hemisphere ,I'm no expert or guru with horticultural experience , just an amatuer bonsaist. Here's a pic of a seedling started in the method described ,it had a 10mm trunk and was 350mm high the airlayer was started when the tree reached 600mm ,colour on the poorest neglected Swampy will always be the same The tree now has a 40mm base is 600mm high with a new leader and the air layer which the storm blew away is 400mm high potted and has a base of 20mm .
100_2883.jpg
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 16th, 2009, 10:23 pm
by Bretts
Thanks for the pic do you have results on anything bigger?
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 6:32 am
by alpineart
Bretts wrote:Thanks for the pic do you have results on anything bigger?
Hi Bretts , i have done Redwoods both Dawn and Coastal with the very same results .Once the trunk is formed and shaped and placed into a Bonsai enviroment it will very slowly age {change shape}, the foliage however will continue basically as a normal tree so "Form the trunk grow the foliage" Power feeding heals scars up to 10 times quicker than the Bonsai enviroment .Trunk splitting is another method of improving Narabri and Base Taper however power feeding is required to heal the tree or disease will set in undetected and your efforts wasted.Cheers
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 8:10 am
by Bretts
So you believe this trunk will not form correctly without splitting or scarring the trunk in some way? I would think being a fast grower there would be little need for this.
Do you have any pictures of larger material that has gone through this technique say the 20mm-50mm in one season. Sorry but the twig with scars still showing does not really show what you are talking about. It seems to me that the bulge looks a bit unnatural as a result.
What do you think of the gravity fed drip watering system for these species?
I hope you don't find my discussion offensive, like I have always said I even question my doctor. Thanks for the interest
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 9:19 am
by alpineart
alpineart wrote:Jow wrote:I love to see a photo of how the scaring heals. I have seen this tried on pines and the scars never really go away.
Hi Jow ,i will takes some pics of a swampy and a Dawn Redwood done last season . Tomorrow and upload to this post . Cheers
100_3483.jpg
100_3488.jpg
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 11:16 am
by Bretts
Thanks for the pictures alpine. I have to wonder what benefit the slashing has done though as the taper looks pretty normal to me and the dawn redwood even looks a little like negative taper. I would think well thought out root work would give better results.
It is a given that swamp cypress are fast growers can you tell me what the normal growth rate is for these with just heavy fert and good watering as Harry suggests? I feel that if you did want to go down this track then the gravity fed watering system developed for the willow would be even better.
Some one suggested to me the other day that they are notoriously hard to root as cuttings but Harry states Cuttings at most times of the year? What have you found. I would have thought that air layer would have better suited a cutting?
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 11:44 am
by Jow
Thanks for posting those... you are really getting some rapid growth! I guess it really illustrates the benefits of heavy feeding in early stages.
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 4:54 pm
by alpineart
Bretts wrote:So you believe this trunk will not form correctly without splitting or scarring the trunk in some way? I would think being a fast grower there would be little need for this.
Do you have any pictures of larger material that has gone through this technique say the 20mm-50mm in one season. Sorry but the twig with scars still showing does not really show what you are talking about. It seems to me that the bulge looks a bit unnatural as a result.
What do you think of the gravity fed drip watering system for these species?
I hope you don't find my discussion offensive, like I have always said I even question my doctor. Thanks for the interest
No Mate , i rattle chains every time i give my opinion .I'm no guru or expert ,but twigs with scars .Gees i didnt think 38mm was a twig crikey you must have some big trees .All pun aside . Put a redwood into a bonsai pot in proportion and root trim and the other into a planter bag with root run and power feed then see which tree has the most dramatic change ? Again 2 trees slice 1 not the other and and see the change .Trunks will form correctly be it at a slower rate to the method i have used .Sorry but i have not used that system, by the sound of it it does the same thing as power feeding ,flushing nutrients through the medium. If i have miss understood your query i will endevour to pull my 2 heads in .Cheers
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
by alpineart
Jow wrote:Thanks for posting those... you are really getting some rapid growth! I guess it really illustrates the benefits of heavy feeding in early stages.
Hi Jow grab a couple of seedlings from a nursery about $2 each and try it .Then you will see the results for yourself .Cheers
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 8:10 pm
by Bretts
If I manage to get some cuttings to take I will experiment with a few of the different ways suggested. We get told alot of things in Bonsai gardening and we can't take all differing opinions on. If we did we would constantly be changing the things we do and get nowhere.
The twig with scars was the first picture you showed. Although welcomed it was the larger size you posted that show a better example. As stated this still doesn't convince me it will be beneficial in my case. I do agree that encouraging lateral root growth while eliminating downward growth is very beneficial to base flare. I think at the moment that correct root work as soon as possible which can then be trained laterally will give the best long term result.
I am starting to understand how your water bowl technique differs from (and solves some of the issues with)the water tray method as the water is not only at the bottom.
I will try and do a quick diagram of the setup that I believe would work even better because the water constantly flows through the soil at a slow rate instead of sitting in water. Power feeding could be done very similar to how you propose. I have a specific fert plan for this year so apart from using more frequently on the swamp I will continue with the plan to use on all my trees and go from there. I allow watering 3 times a day in Summer if the swamp cypress wants more than that I will look at using this constant flow method..
I hope you are enjoying the site I find your discussion interesting
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 8:32 pm
by Asus101
i have my swampy submerged to the base of the tree. I had roots growing out of every side of my pot.
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 8:35 pm
by alpineart
Bretts wrote:If I manage to get some cuttings to take I will experiment with a few of the different ways suggested. We get told alot of things in Bonsai gardening and we can't take all differing opinions on. If we did we would constantly be changing the things we do and get nowhere.
The twig with scars was the first picture you showed. Although welcomed it was the larger size you posted that show a better example. As stated this still doesn't convince me it will be beneficial in my case. I do agree that encouraging lateral root growth while eliminating downward growth is very beneficial to base flare. I think at the moment that correct root work as soon as possible which can then be trained laterally will give the best long term result.
I am starting to understand how your water bowl technique differs from (and solves some of the issues with)the water tray method as the water is not only at the bottom.
I will try and do a quick diagram of the setup that I believe would work even better because the water constantly flows through the soil at a slow rate instead of sitting in water. Power feeding could be done very similar to how you propose. I have a specific fert plan for this year so apart from using more frequently on the swamp I will continue with the plan to use on all my trees and go from there. I allow watering 3 times a day in Summer if the swamp cypress wants more than that I will look at using this constant flow method..
I hope you are enjoying the site I find your discussion interesting
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 9:10 pm
by Bretts
i have my swampy submerged to the base of the tree. I had roots growing out of every side of my pot.
It seems you are saying that you have your swampy submerged AT the base if not I am not sure what you are saying. If so It seems you are saying that with a water tray at the bottom you have roots growing into the air above it
The willow gravity fed system will have the most vigorous ramified roots in the area you want them most, laterally at the surface. As I understand it.
Whether I am way of or not I wish you would take more than one line to explain yourself
Re: Swamp cypress
Posted: July 17th, 2009, 9:12 pm
by Bretts
Not sure what the quote implies either Alpine