Radiata progress.

[Jow]

Well i tried to treat my radiatas like black pines and they didnt respond very well. i didnt get much back budding at all and generally the tree just sat around and sulked until autumn. I think cutting off the new growth around christmas is too late in the growth cycle. I have pinched out all the strong growth this season early on and will see how the tree responds.

The tree is is coming along well even though i didnt get as much growth last season as i had planned for.

IMG_0585web.jpg

That is the tree. Full progression is at my blog (http://nichigobonsai.wordpress.com/).

Any one else have radiatas in the refinement stages? How do you treat them? How is your backbudding on them? How is the needle length?

I still feel i have a lot to learn with these pines. They seem to grow and behave a little more like a white pine. Hopefully after a few more seasons i will get a better understanding of them and their habits......

[Jarrod]

Very nice tree Mate. The photo you have posted makes it look more like a JBP.

I am very interested in the answers you get as far as refinment is concerned as the growth is not like either JBP or JWP.

[LLK]

Your radiata looks good, Jow.
I think that when talking about the P. radiata, we should take into account the fact that the pine of that species we have here has no longer much in common with the parent trees of the Monterey Peninsula. For documentation see for ex. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/forests/educa ... kable-pine For that reason our radiatas will probably never attain the standard of Mr Kinoshita's remarkable trees. One possibility remains open to good bonsai material, and that is if we can find the very old radiatas that were planted as windbreaks on farms before the species was genetically modified in order to become a forestry resource. If it were possible to grow fresh material from the seeds of those trees, we might have a better chance of producing good bonsai from radiatas.
In the meantime, I'd rather make do with the other wonderful pines we have.

Lisa

[Jow]

Interesting article Lisa......

But I dont nessesarily agree with you. I still think that the modern Radiata can and does still make a good bonsai.

There are quite a few victorian example of trees that i can only describe as successful bonsai. There are quite a few good radiatas here in Victoria that were collected from plantations (as self sown trees) that are good trees and i can only assume there are equally good examples in other states.

They are your best chance to find "wild" diggable pine stock as they were planted so widely.

Having said that i still think i am not growing them as well as i could be. I am trying a different method this year and will see how that goes.

As they are not grown that much in the states, and have only really been grown for bonsai here for a short period (in the grand scheme of world wide bonsai) i think that they are still a work in progress in regards to techniques to refine their foliage.

It is only semi reciently that black pines and the decandling techniques that give small needles and fine ramification were mastered by Saichi Suzuki of Daiju En.

Radiatas just need to be grown and observed and i am certain that a methodology will come forth.

Any one else have any luck with them?

[Mitchell]

Hey Jow,

I purchased 40 P.Radiata seedlings several months ago as I wanted to start from scratch. Many have been left straight, many I corkscrewed into knots, 1 is upside down still, cut many down to the first needles.


So long term project but is going well, the knotted ones look terrific. Time shall tell if I can develop them into good bonsai, they have been fantastic to work with so far.

[Jow]

Hey Jow,

I purchased 40 P.Radiata seedlings several months ago as I wanted to start from scratch. Many have been left straight, many I corkscrewed into knots, 1 is upside down still, cut many down to the first needles.


So long term project but is going well, the knotted ones look terrific. Time shall tell if I can develop them into good bonsai, they have been fantastic to work with so far.

Movement is the key to the start of most bonsai. I have found that as trees get thicker the bends they have in them get softer so make sure you over excaudate the movement early on.

[craigw60]

Hi Jow you have the makings of a very fine tree there, as you know I have a bit of a soft spot for radiata I believe the plantation trees can make very fine bonsai as we have seen with a lot of trees here in Victoria, I think they are more suited to our climate than the Japanese species. I am about to pinch mine out very soon. I agree we still have a long way to go with foliage management on these trees but think we are getting much better at it.
Both of my Radiata came out of the roadside near plantations
Craigw

[John Henry]

Hi All, Over the past two years i have treated my Radiatas harder than Blacks and they have responded great.During spring i liquid feed every two weeks (full strength) EARLY December (Blacks late December) cut back hard then let them go and select new buds around Feb,in mid May i needle pluck hard and wire.

[LLK]

Jow, Craig and others, I fully respect your points of view and especially all your efforts. It will be interesting to see what develops over the coming years.
John M., SUPER trees!!!
Jow, radiatas have been collected by Canberra bonsai people by the dozen for years. as we have a lot of self-sown trees, the result of the extensive radiata plantations we had, many of which burnt down. Note that this pine is classed as a weed, though not absolutely everywhere. http://www.weeds.org.au/cgi-bin/weedide ... l&card=E41

One of the reasons I have trouble appreciating the radiata pine is its juvenile foliage, of which the needles take such a long time to mature, i.e. to straighten and harden. The young shoots and branches give the tree an untidy appearance for part of the year.

One thing that interested me is the observation that the radiata seems to favour heavy soil. One of ex-mine is sitting in the clay that came with the rootball when it was collected. Frankly, it looks the healthiest of the three I had. Talk about heavy soil....

Lisa

[Scott Roxburgh]

Hi All, Over the past two years i have treated my Radiatas harder than Blacks and they have responded great.During spring i liquid feed every two weeks (full strength) EARLY December (Blacks late December) cut back hard then let them go and select new buds around Feb,in mid May i needle pluck hard and wire.

And there are some of those trees...

Really great work John, they are very inspirational trees! Number 2 is my fav.

Can I ask if you started these trees from collected stock or were they 'bonsai' when you got them?

[Jow]

Hi All, Over the past two years i have treated my Radiatas harder than Blacks and they have responded great.During spring i liquid feed every two weeks (full strength) EARLY December (Blacks late December) cut back hard then let them go and select new buds around Feb,in mid May i needle pluck hard and wire.

that's interesting John.
I did exactly that last year with the exception of cutting the new growth late December rather than when you do in early dec.

Do you totally remove the new growth, leaving only last years needles?

[John Henry]

Hi Jow, i remove all this years growth in one hit except for where i want to extend it fertalize one more time then stop and start again in mid to late March.

[Jow]

Thanks John,

I have already cut most of my new growth, so hopefully i will see alot more back-budding this year. If that works i might try to do the cut more around when you do to try to reduce needle length.

Talk soon,

Joe

[Jow]

Found some more info from SA bonsai society newsletter (http://www.bonsaisa.org.au/pdf/2006-10- ... letter.pdf)

Radiata Pines
An excellent tree for bonsai. The tree is a
so known at the Monterey Pine. It is a 3-
needle pine. Mick advised to prune the
weak areas of the tree first to allow
stronger growth to the area. Let at least a
week elapse before more pruning and cut
areas of strongest growth last. The first
branch moves left or right and the apex
follows the line of the trunk Wire one
complete side of the tree first, that side
will be restrained and leave the other side
unwired – it will grow very strongly. Later
alternate sides for wiring. With a 3 needle
pine cut the needles as they shoot back
2 – 3 years later in a smaller size.

Any thoughts?

I also found another Pic of a pine by Mr. Kinoshita

2003gsbf_kinoshitamontereypine.jpg

[Asus101]

Mick might be the guy to hunt down, I'm pretty sure he'll be open to giving advice.