AusBonsai

GavinG wrote:In the second photo, the foliage levels look very stiffly horizontal underneath, and the dynamic trunk line is obscured by the needles. Seeing the tree in the bark, the foliage pads do not appear to be stiff or clunky, and the trunk is something you appreciate by peering deep within the tree. Just on the evidence of the photos, the reservations may be justified, but in the round it's a much more impressive tree. The change in needle colour is also accurate I believe - the tree is much healthier - and it is difficult to tell from the photo that the needles are smaller. The detail movement in the downward-angled branches is also very impressive in the bark.

I'm not keen on poodle-clipped trees at all, but this tree does not give that impression when you see it. Come and visit, see for yourself!

Gavin

Thank you for the clarification.

Scott Roxburgh wrote:You have to be kidding me!

Firstly, the staff and volunteers at the NBPCA have done an amazing job getting this tree MUCH healthier than when it first arrived. Secondly, they then gave this tree the chance to be a great bonsai.

A massive effort and sound horticultural practices, that should be applauded.

Sharing an opinion or providing a critique is not the same as simply brushing skill and knowledge aside to make way for our own arrogance.

When an image of a tree is placed on a public forum, some differing views are to be expected. This is how we can sometimes see something we did not notice before. Further, to say a tree cannot be further refined or is "perfect" is rarely accurate - even in Japan. The aim of any Bonsai artist is to continually improve their trees, not to stand in content satisfaction that our trees are unable to be further improved.

I, and many others, have an incredible amount of respect for the expertise of the volunteers at the national collection. However, that doesn't mean our opinions will be exactly alike. Note that no one stated the tree was ugly or wrong.

I hope you better understand where, at least, my opinion and critique came from, as it was not from a negative view at all.

Kind regards,
Mo

PS I hope there are no ill feelings - I simply want to clarify my and what I believe many other members standpoint is on such matters.

I think the tree is a great tree but it looks to me like someone has styled it according to a picture of a completely different tree, with different trunk lines and probably much bigger in size. The first original image for my vote is the better tree.

Obviously permission must have been given by the trees owner for this work to take place in the first place as it is a loan tree, not a donated tree. Maybe there's a lesson there? I know I have learned one..

Personally I like both versions of the tree. In the first pic the tree has a more natural earthy look to it, similar to the pines that I see in the local parks. In the second pic the tree reminds me of one of the stylized trees from Japan that look very refined with each branch and leaf placed in the 'perfect' spot.

It never fails to amaze me how an impressive tree can be reinvented and look superb even though styled quite a bit differently to the original.

Well I think I like the first shot as well but is it me or could the second shot be more balanced if it were not growing out to the left. Its branch placement is almost perfect but just out of level a little. Either that or I should whack the glasses back on when im on the computer. Could it also be the camera angle?

Squizz

Interesting discussion in this thread.

I've read once upon a time about the "near and far view" or "perspective" of Bonsai trees.

I recall it being said that an artist may contemplate a "far" view which will in turn soften the features of a tree as if it is seen from a distance.
Whereas a "near" view will show more detail of a tree due to the perspective/viewer being closer to the tree/subject.

These thoughts come to mind when inspecting this magnificent tree via the two photo's presented.

The earlier picture could be classed as the "near" view whilst the second picture might be considered the "far".

Very interesting comment boics, I can't help but think of the two photos like this analogy of an old car in a garage collecting dust, needing some work as they say, then it gets taken over by a professional restoration team. Its now gleaming and all the hard work is evident. Okay so some people like the unrefined look, but I can't get my head around that because the tree has quite obviously been restored and will benefit from this work for the rest of its life. I would love to see the pads running more perpendicular to the ground creating perfect levels towards the apex, then as you look into the depth of the tree you make out the unrestrained turbulent looking trunk and branches. This is one mean tree, would love to see this in person for the far away look and right up close! Kudos to those who bettered this tree!

To me I see an unkept, unruly teenager in need of a good haircut and some clean clothes in the first picture and a well refined gentleman in the second.

I wonder if people like the first one because it is a far more familiar image of how we see our trees in Australia and on the forums where as the second is closer to what we see in the pictures of the top shows in japan. Do we feel more comfortable with the unrefined image because we find the second picture unachievable? Just a thought.

For me, the second picture is by far the better tree, but I find the foliage mass too heavy for the girth of the trunk. And also, the trunk is too hidden. The first picture shows a beautiful trunk line that goes high into the tree, whereas it is lost in the foliage in the second picture.

Well done to all who have worked on the tree and furthered its development and health. I look forward to seeing it in the bark in a couple of weeks if it's going to be out on display and are keen to see its development on the coming years.

The Pine is doing its job as it is creating discussion, and that is the hallmark of a superb Bonsai. For me it is as simple as the person viewing it, the experienced eye versus the inexperienced eye. The experienced eye can see the work needed to create this through experience of time and skill. The inexperienced eye can not see it because they have not achieved the level needed to produce this. For mine, a magnificent tree. Well done guy's

bodhidharma wrote:The Pine is doing its job as it is creating discussion, and that is the hallmark of a superb Bonsai. For me it is as simple as the person viewing it, the experienced eye versus the inexperienced eye. The experienced eye can see the work needed to create this through experience of time and skill. The inexperienced eye can not see it because they have not achieved the level needed to produce this. For mine, a magnificent tree. Well done guy's

Well mate lets see your tree?? I think in my humble opinion "you are full of crap"
yes you have pulled my string
Ric

You guys have done a AMAZING job on this tree . To someone who has alot of developed pines i know what skill would be required to:
A: get this back to this rigour
B: reduce the needles to the current length
c: style the tree

Well done to everyone involved.
Ric , watch your comments regarding Bodhi i have seen some of his trees and i think he knows what he is talking about. Everyone is entitled to a opinion and not everyone may like this tree but at least respect what level of expertise it took get it to its current shape

Matthew wrote:You guys have done a AMAZING job on this tree . To someone who has alot of developed pines i know what skill would be required to:
A: get this back to this rigour
B: reduce the needles to the current length
c: style the tree

Well done to everyone involved.
Ric , watch your comments regarding Bodhi i have seen some of his trees and i think he knows what he is talking about. Everyone is entitled to a opinion and not everyone may like this tree but at least respect what level of expertise it took get it to its current shape

The level of horticultural work is indeed marvellous , however there is the small thing of ART to consider. All this amazing work has created a prescription clone of 100,000 Japanese formula trees with awesome detail and no style.
I am glad you allow me an opinion but I still think the said comments are CRAP.
Cheers
Ric

I am not sure if Bodhi meant to imply what he did as I have always thought his comments to be very respectful. I can understand though how Ric may have read Bodhi's post as "if you don't like it, it is only because you have minimal bonsai skill/experience". I'll admit that is how I read it.

As for the Tree I like it and can see the amount of work that would have gone in to getting it to this stage. I did wonder though if I might like to see more of that magnificent trunk that has been obscured with the foliage pads on the left (at least in the photograph, which is the trees front I presume). Those are my thoughts but I am just a beginner and none of my trees are anywhere near this standard - opinion may be invalid.

bodhidharma wrote:The Pine is doing its job as it is creating discussion, and that is the hallmark of a superb Bonsai. For me it is as simple as the person viewing it, the experienced eye versus the inexperienced eye. The experienced eye can see the work needed to create this through experience of time and skill. The inexperienced eye can not see it because they have not achieved the level needed to produce this. For mine, a magnificent tree. Well done guy's

If its okay with you Bodhi, would you mind elaborating on your comment a little? I am inexperienced compared to many, however I never neglect the amount of work required to achieve such a standard of Bonsai. Especially not on this particular tree.

.

Kind regards,
Mo

ric wrote:Well mate lets see your tree?? I think in my humble opinion "you are full of crap"
yes you have pulled my string
Ric

My comment was intended to all the viewers and people who have commented and, as a viewer, i also am entitled to comment. Unfortunately you have read it as a personal affront as, i presume, it is your tree? You,as the creator of this tree should learn to not take things so personally and be a little humbled that your tree has been improved to the next level. How can you open your mind to a different way when you keep tripping over your own Ego? This is not the way to improve our mind and learning experience. I have personally ripped a well developed tree apart because the popular view was that i was in the wrong direction with it. The tree is seventy odd years old and i was happy to do it. If the only comment you can make is that "you are full of crap" then this leaves me in no doubt of your understanding.
Regards,
Bodhi.