AusBonsai

shibui wrote:If your aim is to thicken the trunk I would not be plucking needles. Removing needles limits the food the tree can produce and therefore growth of the trunk.

In the growing phase I prefer to let pines grow as long as they like for a full season then cut back hard leaving just a few needles. That will force new buds as low as possible. Then allow those buds to grow free for a year or 2 and cut back again until the trunk has matured enough. Then is the time to start decandling and needle plucking to get ramification and shorter growth.

If part of the tree is bare and will not produce buds you can cut back to a lower branch and regrow the upper part of the tree.

Shibui, do you recommend changing to a bigger pot, stay with the same pot next late summer/early autum or change it to a colander/ground planting with it?

Hahahaha,

Yeah should have taken that info away. I tried to edit and remove photo but couldn't.

Maybe the mods can help?

Yeah that video explains that well.

If the branch got quite bushy and started blocking light he could wire it out of the road.

Squizz

Grant Bowie wrote:Joining a club is good advice as a starter.

Clubs often have "old hands" who know everything and can give you some good clues and advice.

Sometimes however the " old hands" haven't learnt a thing in the last 30 years and are talking crap.

Look at the trees that are being produced and take advice from those that produce the best bonsai in your opinion.

Also have a look at the many threads on the various subjects on Ausbonsai. Most of it has been covered before.

Also attend the annual conventions and seminars.

Grant

Would have to say Leong with the Pines he has at Bonsai South, after seeing it in person on Saturday after Community Market.

xIIRevoEvoS wrote:

squizzy wrote:So If this leader where impeding light from getting to the growth down low I could imagine wiring it out of the road would help. I dont intend keeping that leader in the future style of the tree so I could wire it anywhere if needed.

As it is it doesn't impede any light so I am happy to leave it

Squizz

Kind of got the idea. For example in this video link where Orlando is letting a new leader to grow while the bald cypress recovers its scaring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rnti04ZjTM
Correct me if I'm wrong refering to your image, so your pine seedling has all the needles removed from 'sunnyside to gladesville' (sacrifice branch) and the top part has new shoots/needle will grow for ever until the bottom part 'phillip to number 2 has thicken to your desired size!

Yes that's what I am planning with these seedlings.

Squizz

squizzy wrote:Hahahaha,

Yeah should have taken that info away. I tried to edit and remove photo but couldn't.

Maybe the mods can help?

Yeah that video explains that well.

If the branch got quite bushy and started blocking light he could wire it out of the road.

Squizz

I'm getting there slowly

Hi Allen try and get along to a Bonsai club, the advice you get will come from experienced people if you can't join check the bonsai age on Aus Bonsai of the person giving this advice( some members don't show their Bonsai age ) if I spend money on a tree I want to know who is giving the advice and how long they have been doing Bonsai
Cheers John

Another thing Allen.

I think megumi runs specific pine workshops which you can book well in advance. I would assume it is great advice you get there with the quality if her trees.

Squizz

squizzy wrote:Another thing Allen.

I think megumi runs specific pine workshops which you can book well in advance. I would assume it is great advice you get there with the quality if her trees.

Squizz

It's a 12 month course with one lesson per month (I think) And is $200-$300. My memory leaves a lot to be desired so correct me if I'm wrong. Also I'm not sure if they will do JBP in their regular workshops.

Failing that, call bonsai south and buy Leongs book. I bought it for some reading material and now I am also the proud owner of a JBP.

Jarad wrote:

squizzy wrote:Another thing Allen.

I think megumi runs specific pine workshops which you can book well in advance. I would assume it is great advice you get there with the quality if her trees.

Squizz

It's a 12 month course with one lesson per month which covers specific month by month care (I think) and is $200-$300. My memory leaves a lot to be desired so correct me if I'm wrong. Also I'm not sure if they will do JBP in their regular workshops.

Failing that, call bonsai south and buy Leongs book. I bought it for some reading material and now I am also the proud owner of a JBP.

I stuffed up here, it ws meant to be an edit not a quote. Haven't had my coffee yet.

A club is always a good idea, but many cannot get to them for many reasons and that is why we are here

The wiki has a Excellent ( in my opinion) page on JBP with info about the species and links to some superb threads and guide specific to the species.
https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... Black_Pine

Start there and see what information is missing for you and we can more information or add links to relevant resources on Ausbonsai.

Like all trees, we need initially decide what we want from a piece of material and where it is its development
Grow it on
increase trunk girth
develop nebari
Put in a bonsai pot
build ramification
Reduce needle / leaf size of a "finished" tree

Each of these stages ( and I am sure there are others I have missed), requires different techniques and treatments.

Ken

So at this stage on my JBP, I should do the following:

• Leave the way it is
  Repot into a bigger pot/colander - add Osmocote Tree/Shrubs into the soil mix
  Clean weeds out of the soil
  Feed it regularly with Powerfeed/Seasol Concentrate - Rooster Booster Pellet with mini fertiliser cup

Would like abit of clarification.
However, would i need to cut any branches of at this stage when reading ?
If I repot, can the Pine itself handle some root pruning and which pot size is recommended for developing girth/nebari? Can't really plant in the ground due to lack of sun
http://img.tjskl.org.cn/nimg/78/3c/8bf2 ... strong.jpg - Middle section on left side
What do I do about candles if I leave the pine to grow?

squizzy wrote:Another thing Allen.

I think megumi runs specific pine workshops which you can book well in advance. I would assume it is great advice you get there with the quality if her trees.

Squizz

They do, however only got 1 car that I share with who happens to work on the same day its on

Also, look at what Kez does. He has mucked around with a few.

Here's a link to the lastest active thread.
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=17775

Maybe get a younger tree to torture? That's what I'm doing this weekend, Bonsai World in Jilliby has 10 inch pot JBP for $25 (last weekend).

Ok so I assuming you have decided to grow it on to increase trunk size

Only need to cut branches back if they are extending further than the final size of the tree, or need to be reduced for another reason. eg growing too much to be a good size later in the trees life.
Cut them back to build ramification by forcing back budding, or forcing growth into closer branches nearer the trunk.

With Pines you cannot just let them go mad and lose all the shoots in close as they will not back bud there. Although that is what you really should do to get rapid growth. On a deciduous tree that would be OK as you can cut off the scrifices and regrow new small branches, with pines that does not work.

Pick a branch as a sacrifice to let go, but control the growth of the other branches so they do not get out of proportion and lose close in foliage.

Re the Candles, if the branch is going to be a sacrifice, then leave them to drive growth in the tree. If the branch is to be used in the final design then you will ( oince the branch is of sufficient size for the design, then control its growth by selectively removing candles adn needles at the appropriate times.

Re repotting. if you are bench growing trees on, I increase pot size by on size each repot. I will root trim lightly to remove problem roots ( too big, circling the pot etc) and then tease them out to create the nebari then repot.
Next year do the same but go up 1 pot size.
Putting a small tree in a large pot sooner can be counter productive because the tree does not have sufficient roots to pull the moisture out of the soil and thus it can stay too wet. Result is poor growth or worse death because to manage the amount of water, you have to limit the watering and is easy to let it dry out far too much.

Ken

kcpoole wrote:Ok so I assuming you have decided to grow it on to increase trunk size

Only need to cut branches back if they are extending further than the final size of the tree, or need to be reduced for another reason. eg growing too much to be a good size later in the trees life.
Cut them back to build ramification by forcing back budding, or forcing growth into closer branches nearer the trunk.

With Pines you cannot just let them go mad and lose all the shoots in close as they will not back bud there. Although that is what you really should do to get rapid growth. On a deciduous tree that would be OK as you can cut off the scrifices and regrow new small branches, with pines that does not work.

Pick a branch as a sacrifice to let go, but control the growth of the other branches so they do not get out of proportion and lose close in foliage.

Re the Candles, if the branch is going to be a sacrifice, then leave them to drive growth in the tree. If the branch is to be used in the final design then you will ( oince the branch is of sufficient size for the design, then control its growth by selectively removing candles adn needles at the appropriate times.

Re repotting. if you are bench growing trees on, I increase pot size by on size each repot. I will root trim lightly to remove problem roots ( too big, circling the pot etc) and then tease them out to create the nebari then repot.
Next year do the same but go up 1 pot size.
Putting a small tree in a large pot sooner can be counter productive because the tree does not have sufficient roots to pull the moisture out of the soil and thus it can stay too wet. Result is poor growth or worse death because to manage the amount of water, you have to limit the watering and is easy to let it dry out far too much.

Ken

Thanks Ken, much appreciated with the reply
Bench growing is my main option due to sun positioning next to the car port as you can see in the images of my other bonsai's
Also Hugh of Bonsai Evolution got in touch with me to offer 1 to 1 lessons as well from central coast and he will teach me as well.