AusBonsai

Trying to do this drawing with a mouse is like drawing in a mirror.... my hand does not do what my eye wants. However, I think that swinging the apex to the right will bring the tip over the centre of the trunk, continue the lovely sweep of the right trunk edge and when your branches are developed there will be harmony. The vertical yellow indicates apex over centre of trunk. The extra colour line in the right branch is how I would like to see it shaped but it could be hard if it is as thick as it looks. In that case you would have to go with the existing movement and 'lower' it with the foliage placement.

I have cut a small V in the underside of a thick elm branch.. just enough to move the branch down to where I wanted it. I then sealed the cut, wrapped it and left it for a couple of months. I barely cut to the centre of the branch but it was enough to give me the ability to move the branch without cracking it and there was no loss of vigour. This is something you could consider.. if not on your own then in a workshop situation with experienced advice. I do feel lowering the branch would improve the design if it is possible.

this i am liking even more melaquin. and you are right, that branch is to thick to try ben i might have to try your technique with the cut.
this is one design i am leaning to.
i can see where you are trying to go with this mate. thank you

i love the advice MelaQuin great reading great input

agree with that chris, great advice for me and others melaquin

Hi Jamie
Youve got some great ideas from everyone on the above and I think Mels idea and moving the leader over will give you the movement you need.
Also you should consider that to do the level of carving you are suggesting wont produce quite what your mock up photo shows. Because of the depth of the tree the carving will produce some pretty awkward, half round looking trunks unless you are a master carver. Better to try carving on something else. This trunk is too good to practice on.

Thanks. Considering I'm practically punch drunk from lack of sleep and a flat out weekend [great bonsai show and a live opera as well plus about everything Murphy and his law could throw at me to try to ruin it all - and failed] I'm glad I helped. But there's no truth to the rumours that one can learn to draw if one does bonsai. Ha bloody ha.... I sure as heck haven't. But still... if I got the idea across - that's what matters. Thanks again for the appreciation. It was my pleasure.

appreciate it mate. with what i was thinknigf i would probly have devistated myself if i stuffed it.
and hartos your right, i will try this split trunk stuff on other trees that have less potential.
will kep you guys posted with the progess of what i do. thanks again guys. very much appreciated

Sorry i didnt get back to you Jamie. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, i am a Bonsai Artist and not a computer artist but melaquin has nailed it. That is exactly how i saw it. I am glad you are working with the tree and not carving it up. Some trees beg to be carved but this one has to much potential. CHEERS

hey guys, i am planing on doing some work to this one this weekend follow the guidelines to melaquin and everyones advice. was wondering whether the cut should be made straight up or whether i should "shari" first and do the cuts in progression???
advice would be great. thanks in advance!!!

to be clear when i say shari i mean take the bark off to where it needs then let it heal a bit then do the cut and carve out?

Shari is a strip of deadwood running down the trunk - varying lengths... all shari. You are NOT creating shari!!! Not on this tree. Mate you have a winner that only needs tweeking.... NOT carving. Unless of course that is what you want to do.

What I was proposing is to cut into the flat cut area at the top and remove a V shaped wedge. To be most effective the point of the wedge should be closer to the less prominent branch to give more trunk to the header. You can use a fine saw or sidecutters to cut your V. Be sure you don't take any branches with it. Texta tends to stay around too long so if you can get your hands on a piece of chalk, mark the area to be cut with chalk. You don't want to go too low - you are trying to create the illusion that instead of a flat cut the tree actually developed two branches and forked. This will slim the silhouette and give more taper to the top. Once you have removed the wedge and you are satisfied with the way it looks artistically, coat the entire wound with wound sealant, either the putty or the goop. Then it is up to the tree.

Picasso strikes again The sketch on the left with the blue tick shows you what I envisage as your wedge to remove unwanted wood and create a 'fork' at the top.
The sketch on the right shows an outline of 'shari', deadwood going down the trunk and I really don't think it is right for this tree.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

MelaQuin wrote:Shari is a strip of deadwood running down the trunk - varying lengths... all shari. You are NOT creating shari!!! Not on this tree. Mate you have a winner that only needs tweeking.... NOT carving. Unless of course that is what you want to do.

What I was proposing is to cut into the flat cut area at the top and remove a V shaped wedge. To be most effective the point of the wedge should be closer to the less prominent branch to give more trunk to the header. You can use a fine saw or sidecutters to cut your V. Be sure you don't take any branches with it. Texta tends to stay around too long so if you can get your hands on a piece of chalk, mark the area to be cut with chalk. You don't want to go too low - you are trying to create the illusion that instead of a flat cut the tree actually developed two branches and forked. This will slim the silhouette and give more taper to the top. Once you have removed the wedge and you are satisfied with the way it looks artistically, coat the entire wound with wound sealant, either the putty or the goop. Then it is up to the tree.

Picasso strikes again

trunk sketch.JPG

The sketch on the left with the blue tick shows you what I envisage as your wedge to remove unwanted wood and create a 'fork' at the top.
The sketch on the right shows an outline of 'shari', deadwood going down the trunk and I really don't think it is right for this tree.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

hey mela- i am having trouble explaining myself when i said shari i didnt actually mean shari.
what i was trying to say is should i do this in stages. ie- cut and strip the bark where i am wanting to create the taper as per your drawing, (i know what you are trying to say bout the shari when i said that it was trying to explain my thoughts which i find hard sometimes, its a problem of mine ) then take some out at a time? the a little more and then get to a final "V'd" out shape creating the taper. or is this a case where i can take the cut out all at once.

im sorry if i frustrated you i understand the way i explain some things can be awkward, it is something that does embaress me sometimes.

after seeing your vision for where to go with the tree i think you hit the nail on the head.
i am just worried about die back if i do a major cut straight up because i dont want die back on this and lose all of the work that the leader has

i hope i have explained myself a bit better. once again apologies for the frustration

ok guys i started some cutting out of that flat step today. its looknig much much better, going with the advice melaquin has given me, i have made the v out of the top roughly with a coping saw blade, just for the flexability in getting the angles. its looking a hell of a lot better.
what has to be done now is refinement of of the v out with some carving and design it in to the tree. but you have all guided me in the right direction. i havent got pics because the mobile phone camera pictures are absolutely crap!

anyway guys will get some quality pics of the stages and post soon as possible!

The pics will be good to see. Some great advice.

Chris wrote:The pics will be good to see. Some great advice.

absolutly great advice, glad i didnt go with the split, im keen to start the carving on the cuts to smooth it off too, photos tomorrow hopefully

I am not comfortable with your use of the word 'carving'. You can use a Dremel to smooth or refine the 'V' but that's working on a wound, not carving.
What you are doing is refining the cut so it looks natural and making it a bit concave so when the scar tissue forms it will flow over the depression and leave a flat surface rather than a raised wound. That's not really carving. In some cases you can carve lines in the wound to impart a look of mild weathering but I think on your tree you want the callous to eventually form over the cut area to look like a natural split in the branching, not carving. I don't mean to be pedantic but you worry me... that is such a beaut tree and carving it is not going to improve it. Styling, growth and your care will.

I am keen to see a photograph of your work and another next year as the tree develops.

Also, I am sure the question has been answered but if you are going to cut a wedge, cut the wedge as you want it. Sometimes I don't cut to the edge of the branch, preferring to leave a safety 'lip' between the branch and the wound just to ensure that the branch will survive. In a few months when all is well I will cut into the wood again to get my line closer to the branch. It depends on how strong and secure the branch is, how hard or easy it is to make your cut.

There is nothing wrong with doing it in stages except the time you lose. The tree has to recover from a partial cut, then it gets another cut and has to recover from that and so on. If you do as much as you can at one time than there is only one major recovery. Doing a bit of a trim later will not bother the tree.

When the callous is developing, periodically [every few months] run a sharp implement around the base of the callous to expose some cambium. The tree fights this by putting on more callous faster and you help heal the wound faster. Same way if you take a scab off the sore may bleed a bit but it will scab over again and this time smaller and so it goes.

By the way...the carved tree is an elm. I have carved close to all the adjoining branches but the area I was carving was already deadwood and I nicked very little cambium tissue. I used a fine bit on the Dremel to flick into the bark where I thought it was dead and gradually removed all the dead bark to expose the deadwood for carving. I have not worked in any live wood areas on this tree.