AusBonsai

If the 'graft' was supported by a padded hose-clamp, cable-tie, raffia or simliar the
pressure could be more evenly applied and so avoiding bark breakkng?

Well...today I gave the big trunk chop on the apex of my rather large field dug Trident. I was very careful to leave the layers not too thick and thin enough to flex...undercut slightly and moistened this before attempting to fold over... I reckon your right Bonsaiforest re; brittleness... when gently folding over, they just snapped off.. I agree that your theory regarding the procedure to be more effective, or possible at all must rely on the sap flowing. It's a shame as personally, I don't really want to do all the big chops during the growing season although having read that in some cases, healing of big chops is improved. I ended up doing the standard carving and smoothening off.....regards, Rob...

Your picture - prepared for the van meer treatment - shows you still have a layer of sapwood under the bark. That would certainly make it more brittle and harder to fold over. The way I read it he was taking out all the wood, just leaving the bark and cambium before folding over. When the sap is flowing the bark separates easily from the wood and it will be far easier to carve away the wood and just leave bark to fold over. During dormancy bark is firmly attached to the wood and it will be difficult to cut away wood without injuring the cambium.

I understood that if the outer layer of the bark remains mostly in-tact, this method will work

In fact it is the inner layer of bark - the cambuim- that is important. You could actually score the outside of the bark to allow it to fold easier without breaking the important cambium layer which is on the inside of the actual bark layer.

Hey Robsterious ... Just checked out the pics of your trident project. Great stock you have and excellent base flare, looks like your already on your way to having a fantastic nebari. The Virt that you've created is fantastic really hope you get there....hopefully you'll be adding more pics of your TM as it progresses.

Robsterios wrote:Well...today I gave the big trunk chop on the apex of my rather large field dug Trident. I was very careful to leave the layers not too thick and thin enough to flex...undercut slightly and moistened this before attempting to fold over... I reckon your right Bonsaiforest re; brittleness... when gently folding over, they just snapped off.. I agree that your theory regarding the procedure to be more effective, or possible at all must rely on the sap flowing. It's a shame as personally, I don't really want to do all the big chops during the growing season although having read that in some cases, healing of big chops is improved. I ended up doing the standard carving and smoothening off.....regards, Rob...

My Idea of avoiding the brittleness via the means of sap flow is really just a guestimate. On the Web Page the "Van Meer" technique seems to be pretty straight forward...and the diagrams show the process step by step... Yet I believe that there could have been more specific written information in the article to assist us with the execution to obtain good results. I'll definitely be giving it a go and hope that my assumptions of performing in mid to late spring actually work. Wish me luck.

Yes, certainly...good luck with your efforts a little later in the year. In trying to decide the best time to carve up these Tridents, I read somewhere - probably here on AB...that during the growing season, wounds heal quicker due to sap flow and the fact that the tree is actually sending energy to the wound in an effort to heal itself - this, I guess can be offset by the fact that big chops can bleed excessively..So I've had mixed advice on when to actually do this job.... I probably should have read the article again as from memory it mentioned to leave a thin layer of sapwood.. The image I uploaded was almost there but I kept carving leaving the layer as thin as I could, to the point where I had to be careful with the dremel to stop it from cutting through the layer - which it did in a few places...I have 2 of these tridents to work on and may even leave the other to do the chop later in the growing season..
I certainly could provide progress updates if anyone would be interested... It's my first project of this type. Probably a 5-10 year project before it will look anything decent..??! I was very tempted to drop a lot of money on a finished old tree and finally decided to give it a go myself - patience grasshopper..!! lots of it needed I reckon...
cheers.....

Hey Shibui that's kind of what I was trying to say ..."in a round about way"....Have you ever experimented with similar techniques on your trees to speed up the process of healing large wounds...? If so would really appreciate you sharing. I'm sure all of us would gain a lot from your learnt experience.

I did actually try something similar once but the bark just withered and died so not successful. So long ago I can't really remember exactly what I did so can only offer theory, not actual practice.

I guess can be offset by the fact that big chops can bleed excessively.

In my experience this only occurs around bud burst. When the leaves have opened cuts do not bleed.