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Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 9th, 2009, 9:31 pm
by Jamie
anttal63 wrote:warning this will become very subjective.

the apex should always be smallest, the lowest branch should be the biggest. on a normal upright tree, pretty general ( not do or die ).

why is a cascade different ? the end pad/pads is the lowest branch so to speak. this type of styling will serve you well aestetically. it will also serve you horticulturally ( even though not easy to do), keeping the cacade strong and vigorous. the sap needs to be drawn down in a cascade more so than an upright. again this is not do or die. there are many variations of cascade. its just that i believe in and totally agree with master oishi kasan pg 118 STYLING A CASCADE, PINE MASTERS SERIES.

now im goin into hiding :P

we'll see about that :twisted: :lol: lol
thanks for the input tho, i get the feeling this is going to cause some opinionated responses... lol each to there own tho! :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 7:48 am
by Jonden
It is always difficault to balance keeping the vigour strong in the tail and styling it to look aesthetically pleasing.
I have a semi cascade Japanese Maple where all the energy wants to be in the tail and turn back upright, regardless off tying it to the bench or hanging a brick on the end.
Jonden

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 8:18 am
by anttal63
jon i appreciate where you're coming from. you seem to have the opposite problem. i think some trees are always goin to be more difficult and maybe should not be cascade's. have you tried running a sacrafice or 2 off the apex to draw sap up when not in showing? :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 9:36 am
by Jonden
Yes you are right about not being suitable, but the challenge was there, so I had to do it.
As for the sacrifice branches, this would probably work, but i have spent years refining the crown and i am reluctant to change it. I will post a pic of this for future discussion, as this one should be about the Juniper.
Thanks, Jonden

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 7:17 pm
by Jamie
this is good info! :D

i thought it was gonna get a bit heated but all seems well 8-)

its good to see open discussion without aggression (maybe not the right word but i hope you all know what i mean)

I am interested in seeing your maple jon. look forward to the post on it :D

and thanks to both of you for the opinions and ideas, its great to get advice from people who see things differently, combining ideas and coming to a pleasing result :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 9:30 pm
by aaron_tas
:idea:

like ant said :?:
junipersquamatacasade3_edited.jpg

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 10th, 2009, 9:38 pm
by Jamie
this is an interesting concept for this one aaron :D i do like it!
im thinking i would like to keep the top and work with it tho. will play a bit with your virt and see what i can do :D



quick and dirty but this is what i would like to see, whether or not it will work is another story tho... like your idea too though mate! :D

sorta dragged out my ideas on it tho, but no details..lol...as of yet anyways 8-)

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 12th, 2009, 1:18 am
by aaron_tas
jamie111 wrote:this is what i would like to see
exellent :!:

:arrow: can't wait to see how you go about this one

:D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 12th, 2009, 10:22 am
by Jamie
thanks Aaron!

like i said there is a few options. but i gotta figure out which will be best to get it there!
i have had excellent advice so far and i think i can get this to work.
gotta look at the future design aswell being cascade it will be hard to keep the tail so i need to keep sacrifice branches down there to draw sap to the area!!
but these when there use is done will be made into cuttings and i will try get them to strike, there is some propagation methods that will work well for this.
i still want to keep it a shohin tree.
will go into details when the tree is ready for the progress.
until then will have to wait :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 13th, 2009, 7:14 pm
by Jamie
well guys i figured there is no better time than the present. it might be a little be premature for the tree but with the plans i have i dont have to much that can go wrong. if i get some reverse taper then well i will have to graft a sacrifice branch down low on the trunk to help rectify it.
but i am hoping that wont have to happen.
now for some details of what i have done is-

1. i wanted to keep an apex on this tree and the branch coming up from it wasnt in the right position so it either had to be removed, replaced and grafted, or fused.

i figured the best go was to fuse to start with, if it doesnt take i can remove it and create a shari, then will have to go with a graft, but i think the process should go well.
with the fuse the problems down the track could result in reverse taper- how to fix this will be to probly plug graft(thread graft i think is the proper term, where you drill a small hole then plug a branh into it and seal with a graft wax) a branch down lower on the trunk to help thicken it again, because now with the fuse it will thicken the trunk where the fuse is. but i am thinking and hoping it will still have the same result pushing energy to the trunk and branch for the apex.

2. i had to make some incisions, i cut a groove out of the trunk where i wanted the branch to sit into, through the soft out core of the trunk(the white fibrous tissue) to the harder wood underneath. this had to be neat, as it had to be a nice clean fit for the cambium layer to make good contact.
the second problem was the branch itself although quite maluable didnt want to bend properly all the way in, so i had to take nearly half the thickness of the branch trunk out, more at the base to get the bend, (like cutting wedges to get a bend in a thicker branch).
i was very precise with this as to make sure the cambium layer matched up nicely.. sucess, got it perfect.

3. figuring out how to hold it down in position long enough to take and fuse. the answer zip ties. i know people like to use stainless or brass screws, this was not an option, the branch is a bit thin for this and would split. the good thing about zip ties is it forces you to check the tree constantly to make sure the ties arent biting in to the tree, if it looks to tight then replace a couple of ties and remove the others with snub nose wire cutters used for cutting wire close to the branches, works a treat.
working from the end closest to the base zip tieing to where the cut finished i used three all up. it wasnt a great move but it was necessary none the less.
a home made cut paste(plastecine and oil) was used to seal the area off. just for safety reasons obviously.

4. now it is a matter of time and patience, i need to keep this tree well fed to promote new growth. watch the ties to make sure they dont cut in as stated previously.

pictures are of the cut area and where the branch ended up on the tree to create the new apex. this should help in the long term of the overall look of the tree.
i will have to keep building the apex over the years, this and keeping the tail strong is going to be the hardest part of the progress.

any comments are always welcome as i do need advice on this as it is probly the first major sort of surgery i have done to a tree. but i felt really confident in doing it and feel i have done it well.
also as you can see i turned the tail in the other way, i did like the look of that aaron! :D
this is a long term project that will be updated as things happen :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 13th, 2009, 7:31 pm
by Jamie
i forgot to say, i have several of the exact same species that i can use for grafting if the case needs be!


....man i just looked at how much i typed...wow, havent written that much since high school..lol :lol:

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 13th, 2009, 10:12 pm
by aaron_tas
EXCELLENT WORK JAMWA :!:

i love the way you are fusing the branch up for the new canopy, i reckon you can pull it off and i'd love to see the progression for this one...

:arrow: keep us posted jamie

:D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 13th, 2009, 10:20 pm
by Jamie
will do mate, like i said i went into a bit :shock: of detail :lol:

i think it will work too, either way i have left myself open for plent of options anyways! :D

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 16th, 2009, 6:59 pm
by anttal63
WHO DA MAN??? YOU DA MAN!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D :D :D

WELL DONE JAMIE, PROUD OF YA PAL!
i would like to see a clear close up if you could mate. 8-)

Re: juniper squamata cascade, first attempt at cascade

Posted: September 16th, 2009, 7:49 pm
by Jamie
anttal63 wrote:WHO DA MAN??? YOU DA MAN!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D :D :D

WELL DONE JAMIE, PROUD OF YA PAL!
i would like to see a clear close up if you could mate. 8-)
:lol: :D

will get that close up for ya, will try clear up the shots i got of the intial cut outs as they were taken with a low MP camera(bloody mobile phone ameras, or more to the point bloody mother in law.. lol), but will get more asap.
appreciate that ant. boosts my confidence in this tree big time!!!

:D