Trident woes..

[shibui]

Well that has solved it for you Brian -
Too wet, too dry, insect and fungal. All cured

As I said earlier, This problem seems to come and go here without any treatment whatsoever. I wonder how many of the 'cures' above rely on the fact that it usually disappears by itself?

[treeman]

Look similar Brian? My Trident seems to be struggling too.









I initially thought it was just wind burn... now I'm not too sure.

Pearcy,
I'm not 100% sure about the others but I can guarantee that your particular tree is suffering from thrips attacking the unopened leaf buds. A few years back I had this very problem with ALL of my palmatums. It took me ages to discover what was going on. Finally I picked a couple of shoots off and examined them under magification. Sure enough tiny black thrips came out as I opened the buds. The distortion in the new leaves as they open is caused by thirps (tiny!) damaging the young leaf tissues when they are still closed. A couple of sprays with a good systemic or even malathion will see the new leaves back to normal from then on.
In fact I have noticed some tridents etc with this problem this year. It is usually some time after considerable damage is done when you notice it.

[Pearcy001]

Pearcy,
I'm not 100% sure about the others but I can guarantee that your particular tree is suffering from thrips attacking the unopened leaf buds. A few years back I had this very problem with ALL of my palmatums. It took me ages to discover what was going on. Finally I picked a couple of shoots off and examined them under magification. Sure enough tiny black thrips came out as I opened the buds. The distortion in the new leaves as they open is caused by thirps (tiny!) damaging the young leaf tissues when they are still closed. A couple of sprays with a good systemic or even malathion will see the new leaves back to normal from then on.
In fact I have noticed some tridents etc with this problem this year. It is usually some time after considerable damage is done when you notice it.

Thanks greatly Treeman!

Is there a particular product you recommend? I have zero knowledge on the topic of chemicals.

Also would I need to remove any existing unopened buds? They don't appear to have spread to any of my other trees which is a good think!

Cheers,
Pearcy.

[longd_au]

I am having this problem with almost all my tridents this year. Growth is slower and leaf all appear warped.
I've inspected for thrips etc and have found no trace of any.

The condition doesn't seem to kill the plant but definitely slow growth. As Shibui mentioned, the plant always seem to grow out of it.

The only thing I did different this year is spread dynamic lifter and used a timed sprinkler that has kept the soil wet longer.
I have concluded it is the combination of the dynamic lifter and the wet soil.

All my plants are in raised grow beds with very free draining mix.
I am thinking of some fungal treatment this winter when everything is bared.

[Boics]

I'm going to throw leaf hoppers into the mix as a possible source of these problems.
I've posted extensively on the topic - search the forums and see the discussions / evidence.

[longd_au]

I need to take a photo and show everyone that in my case, it has nothing to do with insects.
No matter if it is a small 1/2 mtr trident or one with a 3 mtr sacrifice branch, they all showed signs of this deformity. I will take some photos tonight and re-post.
I used dynamic lifter 2-3 yrs ago and had similar results so I stopped.

In my case, it could be over dose. Only thing odd is my other plants show no sign of burn.

[Andrew Legg]

. Any maples can show signs but it rarely appears on the trees in the grow beds if any of that gives any clues.

Interesting Shibui. I often wonder how trees must be affected by overly hot roots caused by being planted in baking hot ceramic containers. Perhaps an opportunity for excessive fungal/bacterial growth.

[NAHamilton]

Just to put my in on this,

GROUP A: 5 clump trainers in large black pots down the side of my house. Full sun.

GROUP B: 3 group plantings in poly boxes, a trainer in a large bonsai pot and a load of trainers in colanders in the back yard. Doesn't get afternoon sun from around 2pm.

They all run down the same fence line with a gate/fence in the middle. All are from the same source but varying ages (young though). All are in mostly Diatomite with some potting mix as it is all recycled into the same tub. (I've stopped doing that now )

GROUP A: Got the blackened buds and new leaves a few weeks ago. They have now have re shot OK.

GROUP B: 1 had deformed leaves like Pearcy's when it first leafed out but no blackening. It has come good now though. All the rest no problems.

This is just some things that are happening at my place, I definitely don't have any answers

Cheers,
Nigel

[Brian]

just following up on my initial post, the trident is getting progressively worse, so its heading up to Alpinearts place so he will give the tree some vip treatment.

[wrcmad]

Just to put my in on this,

GROUP A: 5 clump trainers in large black pots down the side of my house. Full sun.

GROUP B: 3 group plantings in poly boxes, a trainer in a large bonsai pot and a load of trainers in colanders in the back yard. Doesn't get afternoon sun from around 2pm.

They all run down the same fence line with a gate/fence in the middle. All are from the same source but varying ages (young though). All are in mostly Diatomite with some potting mix as it is all recycled into the same tub. (I've stopped doing that now )

GROUP A: Got the blackened buds and new leaves a few weeks ago. They have now have re shot OK.

GROUP B: 1 had deformed leaves like Pearcy's when it first leafed out but no blackening. It has come good now though. All the rest no problems.

This is just some things that are happening at my place, I definitely don't have any answers

Cheers,
Nigel

Nigel,

I live 'just up the road' from yourself, and experienced the blackening of new growing tips on tridents last year in November.
This year I took careful note of conditions, and have experienced it again in the last couple of weeks (December) at the same time as yourself.
My conclusion - the common factor over both years was the onset of continual afternoon storms or rain, combined with hot sunny weather (+30 deg) during the day. These conditions made humidity very high during this period. It seems for some reason the otherwise healthy new growth on tridents gets hammered by continual hot humid weather and wet conditions.

I have also experienced the deformed leaves when opening in spring. In fact last year was a bad year for this at my place. So this year I tried something different. All of my tridents were treated over winter with a combination of fungicides and pesticides - (it was like chemical warfare!).
I left one trident untreated as a placebo.
Results - normal growth in spring on all treated tridents. The placebo with no treatment got smashed by something in the buds to the extent that I nearly lost it - it looked like this:



Coincidence? Dunno. However, bi-daily treatment with seasol in full sun and some pesticide saw a steady recovery.

I reckon there are two different problems being observed, and I think treeman might be onto something for the deformation on new spring growth being caused by thrips?
I guess I will find out next year after more experimentation.

Cheers.

[Bonsaiforest]

I too have recently have had the same problem with my trident. It only set in about 2 weeks ago and is definitely doing some serious damage...It's only affecting my largest Trident. All of my other younger trees are doing fine and show no signs at all. The smaller ones are still in black plastic training pots...where as my older tree is in a large bonsai pot. All are in the same free draining mix. So I don't think it is fungal infection of the roots. First thing... Will be removing all damaged leaves & then spray with rogor. If there are any other solutions or treatment to really knock it on the head then please advise. Will post pics of progression if it improves ...Wish me luck

[Brian]

this seems to be a very common problem with tridents these-days and I know many trees have died.

[Bonsaiforest]

Just to let you all know that "Rogor" is off the Market. Was told by the assistant at Bunnings that it no longer being stocked or being produced due to increased health problems.... Respiratory issues being one of the most common effect. So the only choices now are "Mancozeb" or "Fungeroid". I'm Going to give the Mancozeb a try & see what happens.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi folks.
Does anyone spray their dormant deciduous trees with lime sulphur, like bonsai growers in Japan and Europe do? Like Pome, Citrus and Stonefruit growers do - several times every year?

Might be an idea.

Cheers,
Mojo

[wrcmad]

Hi folks.
Does anyone spray their dormant deciduous trees with lime sulphur, like bonsai growers in Japan and Europe do? Like Pome, Citrus and Stonefruit growers do - several times every year?

Might be an idea.

Cheers,
Mojo

Yes. But I have found lime sulphur doesn't seem to help with this issue on it's own.