'Kyoto nishiki' Japanese black pine

[cdk_aus]

Thanks for the reply.
I will get some photos tomorrow.
My research tells me decandle in Spring. That's 3-6 months away, and yet these pines sure looks like they are living in Melbourne.
My other Black pine pre bonsai is inert right now!

[shibui]

Adding a location to your profile saves a lot of this confusion over timing.
JBP often have a second growth spurt in summer so we can see elongated candles or even shoots with needles opening in autumn.
Many of my JBP now have long white candles getting ready for spring so that's not unusual either, even here in the cooler hill country of Victoria.
As already mentioned, photos can give us a far more accurate idea of what is actually happening.

Please note that, even though it is the most talked about technique, decandling is a technique best suited to managing advanced pines.
We use alternative methods for younger, developing pines but that does not seem to be as cool to discuss so not often documented by high profile bonsai 'experts'.

[treeman]

Cork bark blacks do no like bud removal. Better to pinch back young candles.

[cdk_aus]

So, here is the image of one of the 6 Kyoto nishiki ( 45cm pots). At $149, are these too large to develop into a bonsai? Needles are very long, internodes are very long, its going to need a lot of chopping, branches and roots, and may be a bit risky compared with my other ones, which are in development or more compact with good ramification already.

BPine 1.jpg

PT1 nebari.jpg

[cdk_aus]

Not Kyoto nishiki, which are much bigger plants with lots of challenges, but here is a Black Pine I did buy, its from Coolwyn and is labelled Pinus thunbergii Coolwyn Bonsai.
Described as narrow upright form with short needles, 1.2 m tall x 0.8 in 10 years. This would be about 25cm tall in a 14cm pot but already it has taper of an as yet thin base, and short needles indeed , so I am thinking its a good candidate for formal upright development?

p thun coolwin.jpg

[dansai]

Is the Kyotto Nishiki grafted? I can't see a graft in the picture of the base which would indicate the graft is further up the tree. This could be problematic as the tree will only produce the thick bark above the graft and normal Black Pine bark below. As for the needle length and internodes, all this can be dealt with as the tree develops more and you start refinement. You just need to be conscious of ensuring low branches have branches close to the trunk. Both theses can be achieved through good technique at appropriate times.

As for the Coolwyn, you will have may have a different set of issues to deal with. It will produce an abundance of buds that will need to be reduced to 2 to stops large knuckles forming and will probably produce a heap more every time you remove some. I have also found that some of the Dwarf JBP produce rather short thick candles. I'm not sure how this will play out over time, but I suspect that getting fine twigging in the later stages of refinement may be an issue.

[dansai]

Having a closer look at the Nishiki base, there may be a really low graft there that is just done exceptionally well.

[Ryceman3]

I have also found that some of the Dwarf JBP produce rather short thick candles. I'm not sure how this will play out over time, but I suspect that getting fine twigging in the later stages of refinement may be an issue.

This looks to be the case here based on the photo, it’s an interesting observation. Coarse needles and fine branch structure aren’t great friends in general when it comes to bonsai traits. That doesn’t mean this won’t work as a bonsai by any means, just keep it in mind and consider that this kind of growth habit is more likely to work better with bonsai on the larger side. Less crucial to have shorter internodes, or fine short needles to successfully “sell” the illusion of scale with a bigger tree.

[SuperBonSaiyan]

I am going down the rabbit hole of JBP at the moment and I really like the look of that Kyoko Nishiki. As the others have said, i can't even see where it has been grafted.

Did you have success with air layering any of the JBP varieties? I'm going to be attempting some air layers come spring (is this a good time for JBP and maples?).

If I'm successful, I plan to ground grow a few of the Kyoko Nishiki to get a nice thick trunk that's corked.