trident maple seed propagation advice

[Japh]

I assume most of this advice also applies to Japanese Maples (Acer Palmatum). I'm hoping to propagate some from seed myself shortly!

acer_palmatum_rubrum.jpg

Note: For links to other threads I've recently started on seed propagation, check this thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2348

[Jamie]

hey japh, yes the same applies for japanese maple. the instruction guide i got for the tridents was for japanese maple. so same diff. they still ned stratifying etc.

anyway here is the process-

after receiving your seeds they will need to be stratified, this process involves soaking the seeds overnight in warm to hot water to begin with then leaving it for about 24 hours. this helps in breaking down the protective shell and giving the seed a bit of a kick, it also helps you tell if the seeds are viable. they will sink to the bottom after a period of time if this is the case, but still use the process to the ones that dont. once the seeds have been soaked you will need to strain them off, and place them onto a plate or something, just so you dont lose any, while you are organising your peat and bag etc.

put some pure peat moss or a mix of peatmoss and sharp sand in a plastic snap lock bag and add your seeds to it, give the bag a good old shake up and makesure its mixed in well.
and some water to this bag now, you dont want it soaking wet, just moist, and punch some holes in the bag to allow for air flow.

from here it is just a waiting game, you will need to place the bag in your fridge for a period of 90-100 days. in this time you will have to check the bag every few weeks for any seedlings that have popped.
if you havent had any that have popped after this time, place them outside in a propagation mix and cover with about 20-25mm of peatmoss.
it can take up to 2 years for some seeds to be viable and germinate.

in this lot i have 100 trident maple seeds, and all of them floated for 24 hours. i have done all this and now have them sitting in my fridge on the top shelf.

will keep you all up to date with how this all goes for me

regards jamie

edit- japh alerted me to a mistake i made with the viability, sorry guys, it has now been rectified.

[Japh]

Great info! I have some propagation sand and some sphagnum moss... I'm hoping this will work in place of the peatmoss? I've heard either will work, maybe I heard wrong... in which case I better get some peatmoss!

Also:

If they refuse to sink you are wasting your time!
...
I usually find any that do not sink within 12 hours are probably not going to sink with any seeds.

and you say:

...it also hgelps you tell if the seeds are viable. they will float if this is the case, but still use the process to the ones that dont.

Now, I know Brett's comments were regarding Japanese Black Pine, and you're talking about Trident and Japanese Maple seeds, but I would've expected the theory to be similar.

Is it the case that the rule is different between the two species (and probably others), or is one of these the wrong way around? It wouldn't matter to me too much, except I have seeds from both, so it'd be good to get an idea of how many viable seeds I have of each during the process

[Jamie]

hey mate, yes brett is right, i have made a mistake, sorry guys, will fix that up right now

and i dont see why you couldnt use sphagnum moss as a replacement.

[Bretts]

I thought I would check in on this thread to see how you where going. Then I saw my name and thought I am sure I did not coment here

Yep sink is right but I do hope there are exceptions I am trying to germinate some Carpinus orientilis at the moment and none of them sunk. They are a very small seed(unlike other carpinus I have germinated very easily) so I hope that is the reason Ray seemed to agree. He hopes to get a few off me if they germinate. If these fail I will have to try again and pass some off to the expert to get them going. They should have 2-4 months cold. I have only given them 2 months and they are 7 years old

Tridents are about the easiest of them all to germinate so being to late for a cold stratification period I would gust plant out in a seed tray now and see what germinates and if germination is low leave it out for the winter and hope for better next year.
Fall is the best time to start organising the next seasons seeds

[Jamie]

thanks for the input brett

i think i can get away with cold stratification where i am as my climate is a bit more on the warmer side of things. as my spring and summer last a bit longer than usual to. i still get enough cold here for my deciduous trees to go into dormancy, so i sort of get the best of both worlds. i can have tropical and deciduous

regards jamie

[Jamie]

hello all

as this is an ongoing thread that hasnt been updated due to nothing to update really, now there is, although i dont have any pictures as of yet, my seeds after they got pulled out of stratification that lasted 100 days, i sowed them into a propagation mix, just a standard bought ready made mix, after a couple of weeks nothing, and i thought well it doesnt look like anything is gonna happen, i proved myself wrong as i kept the water up to them when it needed water then from there i noticed green spots all over the seedling tray success!

so far i think about 10 seeds have popped, i am hoping from here they will start popping all over the place


will get pics asap

jamie

[Japh]

That's fantastic!!

Can't wait to see the photos, mate! I didn't have as much success with my non-stratified seeds. Will plant a new batch in the correct season this year and see how I go.

[Ron]

Interesting thread as I'm expecting some various acer seeds next week that I bought on eBay too (just wish I was going to be around long enough to see my seeds finally resemble the enticing pics they use on the seed sale pages ).

I'm really enjoying growing seedlings. My Jacaranda seeds which were started on 29/12/09 are now about 10-12cms high with 2nd and 3rd sets of leaves coming up (should I remove the initial seedling leaves or do they fall off naturally?).

[Japh]

I'm really enjoying growing seedlings. My Jacaranda seeds which were started on 29/12/09 are now about 10-12cms high with 2nd and 3rd sets of leaves coming up (should I remove the initial seedling leaves or do they fall off naturally?).

Hi Ron! Growing seedlings is great fun.

I've found that the leaves will fall off naturally just fine for most seedlings. However, don't allow them to sit in the soil too long, try to get rid of them as soon as they fall off. Dead leaves breed nasty things in the soil

[craigw60]

Hi Jamie,
I grow a few tridents from seed each year don't ask me why just habit I guess. I sow the seed when it is ripe in the autumn and in spring it all comes up raising tridents from seed is not a great challenge. Over the winter months just make sure the potting mix doesn't get too wet or you run the risk of rotting the seed other wise its a piece of cake. Always use a good quality potting mix and I usually put a couple of cm of diatamite on top of the seed.

[Jamie]

ron i would leave them on and let them fall naturally, i havent had that much experience with propagating as this is my first go aswell

my plan for the seeds i got was to try a fused trunk technique, on a small scale, the frame i have constructed is only six inches high by about 5 inches wide.

so not massive but will have some nice taper


jamie

ps. as i was typing this there have been more posts posted

craig, the thing with tridents where i am i havent had a great deal of success, i am hoping this way i might, being grown from seed they will be adjusted to my climate, i hope as for not being a challenge i can see what ya mean they are quite simple although i have had to use cold stratification techniques as i am in QLD so they sat in my fridge for so long, and now they are out, i am hoping i can gett away with this as my climate is pretty steady all year round, thats the hope anyways

[shibui]

Hope the seedlings do better up there. Tridents are great for bonsai. Maybe the climate is your problem. Most deciduous plants need a dormant period. I've found that if they don't get it they just go backwards.

For those who live in cool winter areas I also sow seed outside in winter so they get a natural stratification and they come up really well.
Some maple seed goes into deep dormancy if it is stored for any length of time. The pre treatment outlined by Jamie would help break this dormancy. Always try to get fresh seed.

[jarryd]

you been reading dugzbonsai aye jamie been meaning to try this technique for a couple of years since i stumbled on the site. pretty interesting technique cant wait to see how it all works out for you, i just grew a heep of j maples this yr from seed then successfully killed half just recently through a bad batch of fert. they are very sensitive i guess being juveniles an j maples lol ohwell the ones that survived are charging.

goodluck jarryd

[Jamie]

yea dugzbonsai is what inspired me to try it, though i did see it in craig coussins master class a couple years back when i first got into bonsai, i only just got the confidence a while back to try it, not being able to get saplings i had to grow from seed, being trident i dont think it is going to work in this climate, so i might be moving them on if they survive, if not its not a great loss, i will do it with ficus, and get similar results but probably quicker


jamie