OMG..things cost sooo much more 6 years later

[JaseH]

We're cheap compared to Japan, the U.S and Europe.....

I don't necessarily agree with this. There is a massive difference in quality between the stock available in Japan and the stock we have here. Sure it 'can' be more expensive but its like saying Commodores are cheaper than Ferrari's - so we're cheap compared to Italy.

Not having a go at our nurseries, they are doing some really good stuff now. We're just time challenged - the Japanese were already doing it on a large scale 100+ years ago so we have a lot of catch up to do to get the same quality of stock.

I also agree that 'in general' prices at our nurseries are very reasonable. If you think about the amount of time invested in a 7-10yr old, properly trained pre-bonsai stock tree, work it out on a an hourly rate, then you'll see your usually getting a bargain.

[Davehsydney]

We're cheap compared to Japan, the U.S and Europe.....

I don't necessarily agree with this. There is a massive difference in quality between the stock available in Japan and the stock we have here. Sure it 'can' be more expensive but its like saying Commodores are cheaper than Ferrari's - so we're cheap compared to Italy.

Not having a go at our nurseries, they are doing some really good stuff now. We're just time challenged - the Japanese were already doing it on a large scale 100+ years ago so we have a lot of catch up to do to get the same quality of stock.

I also agree that 'in general' prices at our nurseries are very reasonable. If you think about the amount of time invested in a 7-10yr old, properly trained pre-bonsai stock tree, work it out on a an hourly rate, then you'll see your usually getting a bargain.

Nursey grown stock can only reach a certain level of quality irrespective of the skill and commitment of the grower. There is no substitute for time and the harsh growing conditions created by nature. The quality of the collected native material to date is only just scratching the surface

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[JaseH]

Nursey grown stock can only reach a certain level of quality irrespective of the skill and commitment of the grower. There is no substitute for time and the harsh growing conditions created by nature. The quality of the collected native material to date is only just scratching the surface

With respect, your comments only apply to a very narrow list of bonsai species. This thread is actually talking about nursery stock in general - collected native material is a different matter. Exotic deciduous species for instance - grown slowly with correct training from seedling will nearly always produce a better bonsai than a collected mature specimen.

[Grainer]

Dave love Yamadori.. The assumption made is that all growers are putting in the same investment.. this may not always be the case.

[delisea]

Dave,
That collected material is awesome. It is very exciting when you see people realise the potential of Australian species. please update when you have done some styling.
Cheers,
Symon

[delisea]

Dave,
That collected material is awesome. It is very exciting when you see people realise the potential of Australian species. please update when you have done some styling.
Cheers,
Symon

[Davehsydney]

Jase, we can agree to disagree. I would much rather have an elm or prunus that's been trampled on a chewed at by cattle with tons of flaws and character as opposed to a meticulously grown specimen with perfect taper and nebari. To me, each bonsai should be individual and imperfect. I'm yet to come accross a grower who can artificially do that on mass scale. Just like regular art, we are all entitiled to have different taste [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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[Davehsydney]

Jase, we can agree to disagree. I would much rather have an elm or prunus that's been trampled on a chewed at by cattle with tons of flaws and character as opposed to a meticulously grown specimen with perfect taper and nebari. To me, each bonsai should be individual and imperfect. I'm yet to come accross a grower who can artificially do that on mass scale. Just like regular art, we are all entitiled to have different taste [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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Besides, this is Australia. I think its about time we created our own identity with the vast array of native yamadori we have access to, rather than trying to mimic what's naturally occuring in other parts of the world.


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[Reece]

We're cheap compared to Japan, the U.S and Europe.....

I don't necessarily agree with this. There is a massive difference in quality between the stock available in Japan and the stock we have here. Sure it 'can' be more expensive but its like saying Commodores are cheaper than Ferrari's - so we're cheap compared to Italy.

Fair enough. I'm just going off what I've seen and heard. I'm by no means an expert. Naoki Meaoka from Fujikawa was here last week and he was saying that tree for tree we were cheap compared to Japan.....

[Davehsydney]

Dave,
That collected material is awesome. It is very exciting when you see people realise the potential of Australian species. please update when you have done some styling.
Cheers,
Symon

I sure will

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[Grainer]

The challenge here in Victoria is to collect Yamadori legally. All noxious weeds such as Hawthorn, Prunus and Cotoneaster are illegal to grow as bonsai or propagate (collection - regardless of location public or private).

All native species are illegal to remove form public spaces.

Non noxious/non native species can be removed with permission from the council (requiring a license for plant removal) or permission from Vic Roads - This is near impossible.

Hence the Dilema of doing things by the book.. Just never invite the council to look at your collections ! LOL

But Yamadori are beautiful dn offer a unique look and styling which is hard to replicate from nursery stocks.. only bonsai collectors imaginations achieve this usually.

[Davehsydney]

You'll find private land with great native material growing on them. I also know people who have gained permisson to collect natives from public spaces that are zoned for development.

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[Grainer]

Nice.. good idea about the development zones...

[JaseH]

Jase, we can agree to disagree. I would much rather have an elm or prunus that's been trampled on a chewed at by cattle with tons of flaws and character as opposed to a meticulously grown specimen with perfect taper and nebari. To me, each bonsai should be individual and imperfect. I'm yet to come accross a grower who can artificially do that on mass scale. Just like regular art, we are all entitiled to have different taste [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Yep, I see your point and I tend to agree. But I also have a lot of respect for the effort involved in creating a tree from scratch!

Fair enough. I'm just going off what I've seen and heard. I'm by no means an expert. Naoki Meaoka from Fujikawa was here last week and he was saying that tree for tree we were cheap compared to Japan.....

The Japanese are very polite

[Davehsydney]

Nice.. good idea about the development zones...

Bushfires and development claim millions of trees per year i would estimate. But its frowned upon and illegal to collect responsibly for Art...go figure

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