AusBonsai

no idea wrote:Love IMG 0399 what tree is that one?

Azalea.

Great pics to help day dreaming at work today. Thanks for sharing!

on a side note, I'm pretty sure our own Evan Marsh styled the big white pine in pic 0321 during his recent trip studying at Gasho-en. Go Evan!

wrcmad wrote:

no idea wrote:Love IMG 0399 what tree is that one?

Azalea.

wrcmad.....that is amazing and 750 thou mullah Americano wouldn't want to be wearing a belt buckle near that thing

The nebari and bases on some of those maples

I'm not trying to open a can of worms but the nebari on some of those maples is hideous IMO!

melbrackstone wrote:Just a general question for anyone, is the "melted look" of the nebari on some of those trees something people aim for?

As far as I understand, it is desirable in Japan, and the techniques used to produce it take a long time.

Sir Theodore wrote:I'm not trying to open a can of worms but the nebari on some of those maples is hideous IMO!

It seems one either loves 'em or hates 'em. And that's fine... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Expressing your preference will not open a can of worms.
The Japanese love them. One reason is the accomplishment of a nabari like this is a feat of hortocultural skill. However, discussing the many other reasons why the Japanese LOVE them will definitely open a can worms.
Of the 350-odd trees on display at Kokufu, there were maybe only 2 or 3 maples that did not have exaggerated Nebari.

Sir Theodore wrote:I'm not trying to open a can of worms but the nebari on some of those maples is hideous IMO!

Could not agree more Sir T. Plenty of beauty there but also plenty hideousness. Just because it's Japanese does not mean it needs to be revered.
Good on you for saying it. To me, many of those trees are over-worked to the shizenhouzen. But that's just me....

Love IMG 0399 what tree is that one?

I think 0399 looks like an azalea.

treeman wrote:Just because it's Japanese does not mean it needs to be revered.

True, but that was not on the list of many reasons.

treeman wrote:To me, many of those trees are over-worked to the shizenhouzen. But that's just me....

Close up, it is difficult, and sometimes impossible to find a scare on most of these trees.... one thing that makes them so masterful.

treeman wrote:

Sir Theodore wrote:I'm not trying to open a can of worms but the nebari on some of those maples is hideous IMO!

Could not agree more Sir T. Plenty of beauty there but also plenty hideousness. Just because it's Japanese does not mean it needs to be revered.
Good on you for saying it. To me, many of those trees are over-worked to the shizenhouzen. But that's just me....

I nearly had to google that as I thought it was a Japanese term I hadn't heard of... your German is flawless by the way.

I'm in the same boat, not a fan of that nebari. I do appreciate the highly manicured trees, they would be amazing to see in person. We miss a lot of the finer details when just looking at photos.

Yep, I can't recall the last time I saw a dinner plate nebari like those displayed in real life.
Sorry does'nt provoke any natural imagery for me and therefore doesn't meat MY Bonsai idealogy.

Having said that, very amusing nonetheless.

Much like how the join location on twin trunks slowly closes and climbs up the tree as the trunks thickens, so does the join where roots meet the trunk on radial root bases. If you have a good dense spread of roots an maintain it over a long time it will slowly creep out from the trunk an create the plate like base. Like it or not it is a result of a shallow, dense and radial root system maintained over time.

The fact that maples fuse easily simply hastens the process.

One up manship and showing off hort skills may also explain this trend to grow huge root plates but I suspect there is a natural precedent that we just don't understand here. I think some of us don't 'get it' because we simply don't see trees like this in Aust. I see the beginnings of this plate like nebari in 100 year old elms in Albury. I suspect that very old tridents in Japan would have these fused roots all round the trunk, possibly even to that extent, so Japanese growers would have some inspiration. I think in bonsai we tend to overemphasise some aspects of trees to reinforce the image - trunk thickness and taper for instance so they may have done that with nebari as well.

shibui wrote:One up manship and showing off hort skills may also explain this trend to grow huge root plates but I suspect there is a natural precedent that we just don't understand here. I think some of us don't 'get it' because we simply don't see trees like this in Aust. I see the beginnings of this plate like nebari in 100 year old elms in Albury. I suspect that very old tridents in Japan would have these fused roots all round the trunk, possibly even to that extent, so Japanese growers would have some inspiration. I think in bonsai we tend to overemphasise some aspects of trees to reinforce the image - trunk thickness and taper for instance so they may have done that with nebari as well.

I think you are very close to nailing the reasons they are so desired in Japan.
But it goes a little deeper into the psychology and bonsai philosophy that we don't get here either.
I didn't get it either until I started talking to them about their trees, and seeing how their work reflected their philosophy and culture.
It is another level, as is their quality of trees.