AusBonsai

front right side

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front left side

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front left side

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Hi Ilithya,
I'm not sure if my message to you was sent properly. Please let me know if you have received it.
Frank.

Raging Bull wrote:Hi Ilithya,
I'm not sure if my message to you was sent properly. Please let me know if you have received it.
Frank.

Sir Frank,
i did not recieve your message.

Thanks
Ilithya

Hi Ilithya,
I don't know what I'm doing wrong with the messaging, I did attach this sketch and just tried again but it would not work. So I'll post it here and hope it works .
Cheers,, Frank.

Sir Frank, thank you so much for your advice we have almost the same. but yours is better because i have to remove the thin trunk on the left side.

Thank you
Ilithya

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Sir Frank, which one do i have to used for apex?

Thank you
Ilithya


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I like Franks' sketch if you are wanting a taller tree ( the second from the right will be the tallest trunk in the clump).

If you want to go with a longer development, then Treemans idea is also a good one.

In either case, you will need to cut back hard and then wire the new shoots you get as a leader, let that grow then repeat the cut back.
That will give you taper and ramification in the trunks allowing you to space them out.
Once you are happy with the trunk height then concentrate on developing the branching

Ken

kcpoole wrote:I like Franks' sketch if you are wanting a taller tree ( the second from the right will be the tallest trunk in the clump).

If you want to go with a longer development, then Treemans idea is also a good one.

In either case, you will need to cut back hard and then wire the new shoots you get as a leader, let that grow then repeat the cut back.
That will give you taper and ramification in the trunks allowing you to space them out.
Once you are happy with the trunk height then concentrate on developing the branching

Ken

Sir ken,

Thank you. ill do that on saturday.

Thanks
Ilithya

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Ilithya wrote:Sir Frank, thank you so much for your advice we have almost the same. but yours is better because i have to remove the thin trunk on the left side.

Thank you
Ilithya

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Ilithya,

Cutting where you marked is not much chop. To explain, ....one of the most fundamental points in making bonsai is the development or at least the potential for development of a tapering trunk. Of course if that is not important to you then it's fine to cut where you have marked. However, if it is important and you cut on your red lines, the trunk below the cut will not develop taper. Not next year or in 50 years. That part of the trunk will always remain parallel. In fact on the middle trunk, the upper part is even thicker than the lower part. The taper will then begin after your cut. In my opinion, we should try to make the best of the material at hand completely disregarding size or time otherwise, down the road we end up regretting that we did not do it. Taper comes from a combination of two things: the expansion of the nebari (or the branch immediately behind the one in question) and the replacement of leading apices with thinner ones further back. On this tree, you have nothing you can use to replace what is there so you must create one by hard cutting. The un-tapered length of any particular branch of a tree is/should be directly related to the size of the tree. In other words, the smaller the tree, the shorter the length of un-tapering branch. Conversely, the larger the tree the greater the length of straightness you can get away with. On a tree of this size, that length should be les than about 30 - 40mm. Any more than that will be glaringly obvious the more the tree develops. The other important point is the straightness of the trunks. Once again, lack of movement for that length on a tree this size is undesirable in most cases. So the combination of taper and movement is the first thing which should be considered any time we look at a piece of material. Of course you can also have too much movement and taper but that's another story!

treeman wrote:

Ilithya wrote:Sir Frank, thank you so much for your advice we have almost the same. but yours is better because i have to remove the thin trunk on the left side.

Thank you
Ilithya

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Ilithya,

Cutting where you marked is not much chop. To explain, ....one of the most fundamental points in making bonsai is the development or at least the potential for development of a tapering trunk. Of course if that is not important to you then it's fine to cut where you have marked. However, if it is important and you cut on your red lines, the trunk below the cut will not develop taper. Not next year or in 50 years. That part of the trunk will always remain parallel. In fact on the middle trunk, the upper part is even thicker than the lower part. The taper will then begin after your cut. In my opinion, we should try to make the best of the material at hand completely disregarding size or time otherwise, down the road we end up regretting that we did not do it. Taper comes from a combination of two things: the expansion of the nebari (or the branch immediately behind the one in question) and the replacement of leading apices with thinner ones further back. On this tree, you have nothing you can use to replace what is there so you must create one by hard cutting. The un-tapered length of any particular branch of a tree is/should be directly related to the size of the tree. In other words, the smaller the tree, the shorter the length of un-tapering branch. Conversely, the larger the tree the greater the length of straightness you can get away with. On a tree of this size, that length should be les than about 30 - 40mm. Any more than that will be glaringly obvious the more the tree develops. The other important point is the straightness of the trunks. Once again, lack of movement for that length on a tree this size is undesirable in most cases. So the combination of taper and movement is the first thing which should be considered any time we look at a piece of material. Of course you can also have too much movement and taper but that's another story!

Sir Treeman,
this is what i done on my tree. hopefully in couple of years time will get the good result. thank you everyone for your help.

Thank you.
Ilithya

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Now that is what I call cutting back hard.

Nice
Yes it is gutsy but you will get a much better tree for it in the long run

Ken

This time next year you'll be happy you did this