AusBonsai

Asus101 wrote:Unless you are developing branches after thickening the trunk why the need for wire at all? To thicken trunks, branches should be allowed to go freely removed once the job is done.

I will often wire the new leader in the ground. As stated you need to keep a close eye on it as the wire may cut in very fast. I would think this is the concern in the statement.

Asus101 wrote:the little twisted ones are wired in the pot. shari is carved causing thickening to the live sections of the trunk. Add this to a heavy feeding program and you get the thickness.
Otherwise the corkscrew ones we see by the thousands here in Aus is done by staking.

When you see Lindsay's WOB #5 you will see that the wire biting in on some field grown trees is not an issue. I have already seen it

I cant see in either quotes where I said anything about wire cutting in. I know the japanese use wire in the field, but look when they use it and where they dont.
There is a time and place for everything, but simple trunk thickening is not one of those places.

There are enough articles on japanese GGT people can read through.

So if you are not worried about the wire biting in what are you worried about?

There is a time and place for everything, but simple trunk thickening is not one of those places.

When you see the new WOB#5 you will see it is exactly the time and place

Bretts wrote:So if you are not worried about the wire biting in what are you worried about?

There is a time and place for everything, but simple trunk thickening is not one of those places.

When you see the new WOB#5 you will see it is exactly the time and place

I am not worried about anything. Its just easier to use stakes, but if want to use the bleedin stuff use it...
Another misquoted argument.... reason 1....

Bretts wrote:So if you are not worried about the wire biting in what are you worried about?

There is a time and place for everything, but simple trunk thickening is not one of those places.

When you see the new WOB#5 you will see it is exactly the time and place

well this is what i am saying, while a juni is still young it should, and i repeat should be fine to cop some wire scaring, i think in the end result of it all it adds feature to the tree, not against it, i can see how wire biting in can create visual effects on a young tree in the sense it could create or mimic live veins, if the wiring angle isnt to angular, it would help thicken the trunk it is similar to young pines this technique is and has been used.
i havent seen WOB #5 yet but i cant wait to get it and have a look at the techniques they use in this circumnstance.

jamie

asus, stakes are fine if you want a taller tree, but if you are after a more squat, shohin style tree, what would you do?

stake it, let it grow, cut back, grow cut back etc.

or

wire it, twist the hell out of it, create some shari and live veins and get a nicer tree quicker.

thats what i would do rather than wait the 50 + years it would take for a juni to grow to a decent trunk size in the ground.

JMO.

jamie

I am not worried about anything. Its just easier to use stakes, but if want to use the bleedin stuff use it...
Another misquoted argument.... reason 1....

God you are a funny bugger, if you had any more buttons you would be a key board
If you had said in the first place hey nothing wrong with using wire BUT I think stakes are more practicle then there would have been no argument to misquote.
You asked what wire could be used for as you weren't working on branches. The leader off course as I said. Maybe getting movement in the trunk.
It does raise a question though what do they use for training branches on the field grown Pines. On a mass scale stakes do seem the most practical but I have never seen any in Lindsays vids?
So to clarify I think wire is fine if you are carefull but I would think this is not really practicle in mass field operations and now I am curious what they do to train pine branches in the ground in mass operation.

I believe in one of Lindseys new videos you see some one in a feild selectively hard pruning pines for shape and branch placement. Too many trees to maintain wire on... You get the movement in the trunk before placing it in the ground and then you let them go....

I've put a sandpaper fig in my garden to grow and thicken and it is heavily wired to try to get some movement in the trunk. I check it every time I water it. I'm not worried about the branches but the trunk needs to thicken and become shapely... otherwise it is all a waste of time. As long as diligence is applied and the wired area checked frequently.... no probs. Well, there is a problem... getting down on the ground to unwire and rewire.... that's why better bonsai people are younger. Ha Ha...

jamie111 wrote:asus, stakes are fine if you want a taller tree, but if you are after a more squat, shohin style tree, what would you do?

stake it, let it grow, cut back, grow cut back etc.

or

wire it, twist the hell out of it, create some shari and live veins and get a nicer tree quicker.

thats what i would do rather than wait the 50 + years it would take for a juni to grow to a decent trunk size in the ground.

JMO.

jamie

There is enough reading on creating shohin twisted junipers, none go in the ground. its all heavey feeding, water and shari to get the thickness needed inside 10 years.

If you want a live vein section, wire it as you would want the dead section and allow it to cut in to the point that the vein is created.
Creating movement with wire while in the ground? Why bother? Why not hack and slash as you will get more beliveable bends and curves, while also increasing taper.

Uri Geller would have been good at Bonsai