I showed a local bonsai mate the 100% mix with dust and he stated I don't think drainage will be an issue
I have trident seedlings in this mix at the moment and they are in the survival of the fittest section. I can say that they have way out performed the trident seedlings that they where put in a much more organic mix. I water them once a day although since they are in the less care area I am unsure but I think they may go 2-3 days without water yet they are thriving in watering every day so I continue.
This is great stuff.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
sounds pretty good to me i might have to do a few tests on a couple of different species with me having a completly different micro climate to yours i could and probably will get defferent results
thanks mate
and thanks Kvan for bringing it to my attention
jamie
SHOHIN YAKUZA!!! taking the top half of trees of since 2005!
and growing trees for the future generations! 50+ year plans
I have been meaning to post about a pine seedling re potting observation I made this year. I Separated, wired, root pruned and repotted 1 year old JBP seedling this year most went into my stock mix this year that was 1/4 pine bark, 1/4 cow manure, 1/2 terracota. I also experimented with various 100% inorganic mixes. Diatomite zeolie scoria akadama. Almost every one of the standard mix died. Almost everyone of the 100% inorganic ones survived. It is interesting that the article I follow at the moment states to use 100% sand and grit mix at this age.
I will experiment with a grit and potting mix next year(no cow manure) and my standard mix for these next year will be 100% inorganic.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
hi i havnt used either the small weipa rock looks good as a surface peble on some trees i allso use diatomite (not sure of spelling) it works great 50% and 50% debco plugger custom mix that is made for tess at northside i sift out the real fines with a yabby pump sifter that i have sikaflexed fly screen in the bottom of i allso use a bit of spagnum but i tear it up to realy small peices so it dosnt get tangled in the roots as it would be a nightmare to get out
Bretts wrote:I have been meaning to post about a pine seedling re potting observation I made this year. I Separated, wired, root pruned and repotted 1 year old JBP seedling this year most went into my stock mix this year that was 1/4 pine bark, 1/4 cow manure, 1/2 terracota. I also experimented with various 100% inorganic mixes. Diatomite zeolie scoria akadama. Almost every one of the standard mix died. Almost everyone of the 100% inorganic ones survived. It is interesting that the article I follow at the moment states to use 100% sand and grit mix at this age.
I will experiment with a grit and potting mix next year(no cow manure) and my standard mix for these next year will be 100% inorganic.
very curious brett!
I have also had some strange results with seedlings. My Soil test trees had an issue where they did not get enough water for a few days ( read none), and the ones in my mix all survived and are thriving, but the ones in Rays mix and Akadama have either died or are still struggling.
Every day I am getting more convinced that inorganinc mixes are far better
Whats wrong with 10mm Ken? I used it in quite a few mixes, up to 25%. I also have a fig cuttings taken last year in just 10mm scoria. It is doing very well. Cant wait to get it out, rake the roots and then put it straight back in. I dump heaps of pelleted organic fert on it regularly, to which it responds VERY well.
This spring I repotted several trident seedlings to experiment with fertilising after repotting and also testing 100% scoria. The fertiliser part of the experiment got lost in my slackness as after the initial fertiliser of half the seedlings straight after severe root prune and repot I fertilised them all the same from then after.
Obviously fertilising the scoria ones at least after repotting seems to have caused no harm.
What is left of the experiment though is a vast difference in growth between my organic mix and the scoria medium.
The ones in the organic mix are showing signs of the trident leaf issue I am having where the scoria ones have no issue growing through it.
scor.jpg
scor1.jpg
I am not happy with the stock organic mix I made up this year I think it has too much cow poo in it. Also these trees are watered haphazardly in the survival of the fittest area(I just can't throw a tree away ) I hardly ever check when these guys need water. The scoria gets watered almost every day and I try to water the organic mix every other day as I think they are a bit over watered.
Anyway it is an interesting result.
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Last edited by Bretts on December 6th, 2009, 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
its interesting that the scoria even in your 100% scoria test looks quite large yet they look the strongest trees, maybe it has got a lot to do with how wet the trees are getting as to where the scoria is drying out a bit more which is better for the tree.
one would think a drier medium would suit coniferous trees more so than deciduous yet the tridents seem to be thriving in your test brett. maybe it has something to do with the drying out time and rewatering, where as the organic medium is staying wet longer causing root problems? which could be causing the leaf issue on them??
jamie
SHOHIN YAKUZA!!! taking the top half of trees of since 2005!
and growing trees for the future generations! 50+ year plans
I am sure that better watering would improve the organic mix but I am sure it would still have issues. I have my Hornbeam seedlings in this mix and they do get the utmost care. They are finally starting to show signs of health after a shaky start.
The cow poo I have used is definitely exaggerating what ever issue I am facing. I think it is more that the mix is too rich in nutrients, bacteria that is causing the issue more than waterlogging. I often saw brown humic like water running out of my pots. I have improved the hornbeam seedlings by absolutely drenching them over and over when I water to leach out the high nutrient content. I had fought this issue before I used cow poo but it seems much worse with the cow poo so any trees that have shown this issue will be in a 100% inorganic mix next year.
If you look under the large particles in the scorio mix you can see the dust and smaller bits that the seedling is actually growing in. These where watered about 4 hours ago and I don't see it drying out much by the end of the day yet this will be watered again tomorrow as usual so as with the organic mix I think they are also being over watered. This is telling me that this mix can't really be over watered.
scor2.jpg
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Last edited by Bretts on December 6th, 2009, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
they Smaller stuff in the middle looks like about the sise particle I use for most on my trees
2 -> 7mm.
I would agree that from my experiments, that inorganic mix will give faster growth rates. I will update and post some of my results so far
The ones in my mix are thriving where th other have either carked it or are struggling
I have been using 50% scoria and 50% orchid mix or there abouts (not exactly a scientist on these things) for my bigger grow on pots. And pretty much 75% gravel and 25% mulch for most things for a long time. Then I got lazy and started to use Rays mix. Anyway I lost a few trees to bad watering and went back to gravel and grit and now akadama.
There is a key issue with organic or heavily mulched mixes. Once they are dry they are dry!
Try watering a dry pot. The water sits on the top and then tends to run around the outside If you then dig into it the majority of the soil is still dry.
IF you keep it generally wet then it tends to be easier to rewet.
Whereas with gravel or scoria or as I am learning akadama the water flows through and finds little cracks and crevises to rest in.
Rounded pebbles dont work so well because the water passes straight by but with scoria the irregular cracks provide places for the water to sit and gather.
It does not actually have to absorb.
A bit of organic a matter is good, it helps with nutrients and retention of water but too much turns into a type of mortar which prevents the water flowing through.
I would think the scoria dust mixed with soil would turn into mortar but without the soil to bind it, it will simply wash away and due to the large size of the scoria not cause the balance to break up.
Ive never tried the diatomite or zeolite mixes as I havent got around to it, but Scoria, gravel, akadama etc. work because they allow water in and have places for it to collect. (thats my guess anyway)
Bretts wrote:Hey Kvan have another look at the hand written label you may find that squria is actually meant to be scorio. Looks like that anyway. Whether it is scorio or not that stuff will be excellent in your mix. Some of us have been searching for scorio in the size you have. Usually the smallest is 7-10mm. I have been crushing this to a smaller size.
I am very interested in where your uncle got that as I will be chasing it up myself.
I finally got it!
It's is scorio. It's funny to hear the guy pronounce it correctly but then can't spell it
Anyway, I paid a visit to the bonsai shop today and found one bag with some original labelling. The source is from the Stone Merchants. I traced to the source and found out that it is also sold in similar size bags for $12.50. The price for one cubic metre is $330. That are a lot of bags. Please find the direct contact info from the pic.
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Last edited by kvan64 on December 7th, 2009, 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Always we hope someone else has the answer. Bonsai is an art of shrinking.
i might have to do a few tests on a couple of different species with me having a completly different micro climate to yours i could and probably will get defferent results 
taking the top half of trees of since 2005! 
