AusBonsai

Hi Pup , is this shohin? take a look at this site "All Japan Shohin Bonsai Association" Association Official Home Page 2009.10 .17 English version ,sorry cant read japanese http://www.shohin-bonsai.org.It clearly shows a shohin tree on a rock ? on their new "homepage" , maybe somebody forgot to tell the Japanese Shohin Assoc' that its not exceptable or would this be classed as an accent ? .Haven't found any others but an official Japanese site would have some credibility as too whats right and correct . Hope this helps .Cheers

alpineart wrote:Hi Pup , is this shohin? take a look at this site "All Japan Shohin Bonsai Association" Association Official Home Page 2009.10 .17 English version ,sorry cant read japanese http://www.shohin-bonsai.org.It clearly shows a shohin tree on a rock ? on their new "homepage" , maybe somebody forgot to tell the Japanese Shohin Assoc' that its not exceptable or would this be classed as an accent ? .Haven't found any others but an official Japanese site would have some credibility as too whats right and correct . Hope this helps .Cheers

Sorry Alpineart could not open your link which is a pity as I have just gone though 19 pages of what Shohin are!! jeez its confusing as to sizes and where they start and finish.
That is not a worry and going on some of the explanations, I think we can show them as what they well most of them say that you just produce a nice tree that you can hold in your hand. Now if you have big hands or strong ones it can be quite large. I can carry a 20inch 500mm tree in my hand and mine are not big.

So there you have it, but I think it is more exceptable at say 250mm.

Cheers and thank you for trying Pup. May be one of the mods can get the link to work eh!!

If a tree is measured from the soil level at the nebari to the top of the tree, than root over rock should be measured from the soil level to the top of the tree. If it is root on rock then from the nebari to the top of the tree.

Hi Pup ,just type in the same use HTTP// in the front of the typing . Not up to speed with pasting and copying on these boat anchors .If you do a google search in "images" for Shohin bonsai its on the 4th page second line down under "All Japan" shohin-bonsai.org , enter the 2009.10.17 its the English version . My "fault" i started the new sentence too close to the title and it included the first word . http://www.shohin-bonsai.org .Cheers

Try this Pup!
http://www.shohin-bonsai.org/

Pup
I've just completed a fairly extensive internet search and the general consesus seemed to be that Root over rock style bonsai can be considered shohin, as long as it conforms to the other criteria such as height, but that one should check with display or competiton judges beforehand because some judges will allow rock over rock whereas others will not. Examples of shohin I found follow.
I hope this helps a little bit.
Kind regards
Michael

That is the consesus I got, and the same it is the show coordinator or judge that decide. Now that has been cleared up.
I can get on with creating more as can Jamie
Thank you for your input every one.

Cheers Pup

Pup wrote:

Jamie wrote:definately a conundrum pup, its been bugging the hell out of me, i have been searching for info on it but havent come up with much yet

will keep hunting

There are a lot of experts telling what the sizes are. Are there not, but none can give a definitive answer to our question. I have Challenged our American cousins to see if they can come up with an answer. Because it was an American site I was on on when it was said.
When questioned further no answer so I left it at that. Should have persevered.

Looks like we will have to wait on the club Sensei's answer when I can ask.

Cheers Pup

its funny you say this about our american cousins as i asked about it on B-nut (what a silly move ) and the first answer i got was a rheeming of sorts ahwell, we can create our trees that conform so all is good!

to add to this just checked the answers and everyone else answered quite well and specifically with good responses to the question which has comme up with similar results to us

I was going through a few Japanese albums last night and found these.
That should clear things up.

Oh and i forgot to mention... those pics are from the Taikan-ten bonsai exhibition in Kyoto....

Looking at that Jow, one would think that it is the over all height of the composition that matters. tree + rock = classification. ???

Jow and Antall

As you will note in my post above we have worked out. That in the west the Judge or show coordinator make the call.

However when I display my shohin Ishizuki at the club exhibitions, I will have my copy of Gafu ten that has root over rock in them.

As well as an Australian native tree, in it.

Cheers Cheers Pup

I was going through a kokufuten album last night and there was a shohin composition with a root over rock trident.

It was from no. 55. I am guessing that if it is in the two top shows in japan then it should make for a fairly good arguement here if someone questions your root over rock shohin.