AusBonsai

Once one has a basic understanding, the rest is about learning to read and trust your tree's. They will tell you what is needed. But if the science of the whole matter excites you and you just cant get enough information. Then by all means continue. Like great chefs, after a basic understanding they learn to read their pallets, sense of smell, become one with them and trust them. The scientific bunch usally join the food science service's or health inspecter service's. they couldn't make the grade of great chefs. not enough time put in doing it.

My wife thinks I am a good cook. I know I am not because I have hardly any understanding of how most spices and ingredients work. I follow recipes and often get game to experiment. Some times it works and some times it doesn't.
I know that balsamic vinegar goes great with Tomatoe, watermelon and basil. If I knew why then I could hazard a guess at other foods they go well with.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where we just knew stuff without doing the hard yards of learning.

Great chefs know what each spice/ingredient does and how it does it. Only then are they able to use their trained pallet and know, what adding each ingredient at what time will do to the dish.
Then they are also able to take this knowledge and create new dishes.
Also this enables them to understand what other chefs are saying when they speak with them instead of just standing their nodding their head wondering why it matters at what time he puts the salt in the dish.


It is the same with horticultural skill. You can have a whole system/recipe handed down to you and basicly it works great. But if something goes wrong and you don't understand how each ingredient works you are lost.
If the system you are handed uses Yates Liquid Tomatoes in Autumn and you don't understand how it works. In fact you have never even read the analysis. What happens if they take that off the market, it could be many years watching and reading your trees experimenting blindly trying to find another product that gives the same results.
Lime sulfur was recently banned in California. If no bonsai practitioner understood how lime sulfur works then there are a bunch of people standing around scratching their bum wondering what they are to do?

Bretts wrote:My wife thinks I am a good cook. I know I am not because I have hardly any understanding of how most spices and ingredients work. I follow recipes and often get game to experiment. Some times it works and some times it doesn't.
I know that balsamic vinegar goes great with Tomatoe, watermelon and basil. If I knew why then I could hazard a guess at other foods they go well with.

Its the offset of sweetness and the acidity... Strawberries also go well with balsamic vinegar, while red win vinegar goes well in soups and stews and can by used in salad dressings using a 3 to 1 olive oil to vinegar ratio.

using a 3 to 1 olive oil to vinegar ratio.

also good for salad dressings with a splash of lemon or lime and some salt and pepper. always go by taste, taste every thing, if it doesnt taste right or good, put in what you think is needed, cooking is a simple thing, clean simple flavours generally taste better than meals with massive amounts of ingredients, one prob lots of people do when cooking.

as for seasol, i use it all the time, along with ST aswell, with the rest of my feeding regime my trees have never been better, go by the taste (meterphorically) if the trees are looking healthy and thriving it is working, reasons could be the seasol, could be the ST or it could be the amount it is getting. to work out why it has to be process of elimination, take one away see what happens. take the next away see what happens. while doing that do it in reverse build up add on, wait, add another, wait. and so forth, write down results. look closely at all aspects. identify whats happening and conclude.

i do think people look into things a bit to much, just like cooking adding so many ingredients and get such an abundace of flavours can be to much and conflict.
see the results if they speak for themselves and "taste" good then you know whats going in and what you are doing and using it for then spot on

Ok guys the question is what dilution do we use seasol to help seed germination. It's not listed on the bottle!

Bout that much, he says as he pours a random amount into his watering can!

If you look at the study you will see that a specific amount was needed for optimum germination. Using too much will hinder germination if you are only guessing I think you would be better off using none at all!

Bretts wrote: Here is how a science study should be done! well thought out and conducted with references.
http://www.idosi.org/aeja/2(2" )09/2.pdf

I am not sure you will find a better list of reference material to continue your studies

20% sea weed extract gave the best germination and growth rate. Anyone know what concentration seasol is?

Where are the stats in that paper? Please tell me, what is it about this paper, with a lack of statics is a good paper?
Brett what are your qualifications to rate academic papers?

Never measured a seasol dose in my life, why start now!

Jarrod wrote:Bout that much, he says as he pours a random amount into his watering can!

and then there was a light of sanity shining on the horizon when it dawned upon us that laughter and lightheartedness always creates harmony in all that we do.

How much.....too much......not enough......i personally think you gotta try things and learn from it and if is wrong dont worry as Tony sad your tree will let you know.....
I know someone repotted a privet but just before to put the tree in the new pot, it has been left overnight in a 100% solution of seasol....and guess what....The tree did not drop one leaves and it is still alive today and looking very healthy

Call me silly but I Like to measure my Fertiliser . Although I do hear what you are saying Jarrod. I do muck around with the strength of seasol in the watering can. I have used it many times the recommended strength to experiment and some times take a guess making up a small batch to soak a transplanted tree.
Just to clarify what I am talking about here. It is the dilution of Seasol to soak seeds in to improve germination. It is something that I want to get right.

Sorry Aus but I feel I need a degree to understand your question. The best I can figure is you are saying that this study has a lack of statistics?

This study discusses the history of using seaweed with related references. It explains what it sets out to study and how it will accomplish this and then gives relevant results that show 20-30% dilution of liquid seaweed extract gave best germination and best overall harvest after 45 days.


I have never been game to add auxin to seeds I want to germinate. Although there is solid studies showing marked improvement. The reason I have not been game is as this study shows when mucking with hormones there is a window that works and missing this window means you would have been better of not using it at all.


This study seems to show that window clearly but again considering that he general dilution for seasol is 0.33% that is a very great distance from the 20-30% found beneficial in this paper. Just for this reason is why we reference studies like this as much as possible so anomalies like this can be worked through.

I am still not sure if this study applies seaweed after germination.

Anyway after talking with seasol today they stated that commercial seasol is twice as strong as retail seasol. Also that at retail strength seasol they would recommend 1:500 dilution(Edit: for soaking seeds) If my maths is correct that would mean 18ml per 9L watering container. A considerably less amount than for general use.
The rep I had could not answer how they make the commercial seasol stronger but he was a nice chap. I think he left with some questions of his own and he gave me a couple of websites to look into some more studies.

Bretts wrote: Just to clarify what I am talking about here. It is the dilution of Seasol to soak seeds in to improve germination. It is something that I want to get right.

Have you tryed my method of warm/hot water and agitating? Seems to increase my germ rate.

Hi Mitchell
I usually soak seeds in warm water form 24-48 hours. I shake the bottle a bit some times to see which ones are sinking but I am not sure if that qualifies as agitating
I would not say I have any issue with germination. That is why I never temp fate using auxin or seasol to help with germination but maybe it is time to learn.

just to add to what i said before, i like jarrod have never masured seasol or ST for that matter when using it, i probably use way to much of both, a good splash of ST and a couple of seasol and away they go! tastes good so me trees tell me