AusBonsai

gday craig

i completly agree about why letting the wire to cut in just a touch gives a just about guarantee of the branch being set, especially on rougher barked species! like i explained i generally wire twice on most things, first one to ge things into position where most of the time i get to it before it bites in, then removing that and applying to the same branches i have removed the wire from, replacing it with the wire running in the opposite direction, this allows the branch to set in position without having to deal with wire scars that can take a fair bit of time to grow out on some trees! the ones i have found most amazing with scaring is clerodendrum, i seriously think if anyone just getting into bonsai got one of these it would be a perfect situation as they are so fast growing it allows them to practice there wiring skills and they have a tree to work on that is constantly moving quickly so they see results, anyways back to the reason i brought it up, i had my two good clero both get wire scaring in more than one point that was quite heavy, im talking the wire nearly being the depth of the cut if not being grown over, i removed it anyways knowing that it will look a bit dodge but it had to come off, and they basically had healed the scars within a matter of a couple of months! brilliant! love them

i have had wire scars on figs that are still trying to grow out that is why i am so cautious these days. i would hate it to happen on a japanese maple i couldnt dream of trying to grow them out!

jamie

Yes Jamie I let the wire scar my palmatum group and its a disaster not only do the scars take forever to heal but the branches then thicken at a phenomenal rate once damaged. I have scarred the trunks on my figs during the initial trunk training period with quite good results, but would not do it to the branches on more established trees, its enough trouble keeping them fine without throwing wire marks into the mix.
Craig

I have never been one to seal my cuts but am starting to see the need. I am amazed at the difference between the sealed and unsealed sides.

I know there are numerous different products for sealing cuts but am wondering what the differences are & what other things could be used in place of the expensive japanese products. Would plastecine (playdoh) or regular wood putties be as effective or is it a case of the expense being justified?

What the japanese cut pastes are made from? Is it possible to make your own?

Matt

MattA wrote:I have never been one to seal my cuts but am starting to see the need. I am amazed at the difference between the sealed and unsealed sides.

I know there are numerous different products for sealing cuts but am wondering what the differences are & what other things could be used in place of the expensive japanese products. Would plastecine (playdoh) or regular wood putties be as effective or is it a case of the expense being justified?

What the japanese cut pastes are made from? Is it possible to make your own?

Matt

You can make your own stuff that will cover and seal a wound - ordinary water based, I first used ordinary water based paint because i didn't want to fork out. I think the main difference is that the bought stuff contains hormones to promote healing.

Hi Matt one of the great lessons Hiro taught me was to apply the cut paste very thinly ,if you put it on too thick it actually inhibits the healing process. With that in mind you will find a small pot of Japanese cut paste will last a very long time. In order to spread it thinly you need to have a bit of saliva on your fingers.
Craig

craigw60 wrote:Hi Matt one of the great lessons Hiro taught me was to apply the cut paste very thinly ,if you put it on too thick it actually inhibits the healing process. With that in mind you will find a small pot of Japanese cut paste will last a very long time. In order to spread it thinly you need to have a bit of saliva on your fingers.
Craig

Hi Craig, I was wondering about that. I have never used wound sealers except in bonsai because i remember a lecturer at TAFE saying that things like steriprune will often slow the healing process by getting in the way of the cambium moving over the wound. I wonder if its true. I guess Hiro would know

Hi Neal, I do a great deal of garden work including pruning. In some of the old gardens I work in the pruning has been very drastic to try and get light in so I can establish a nice understory. I have never sealed anything pruned in the garden with no grave results. However with bonsai I seal almost always. The Japanese produce two kinds of cut paste one in a tube and another in a little pot. The one in a tube is for hard barked plants, it sets and makes a hard crust, if you use this product on soft bark species such as palmatum or azalea the wound will develop a lump trying to push past the sealant. The putty one is for soft bark species. This is how Hiro explained sealants to me. I hope he doesn't have shares with the manufacturer.
Craig

Thats interesting. I have never used the putty except when the other stuff couldn't stop the bleeding from some big cut ends (the big knisai that hiro did) then i borrowed some putty from Arthur and wrapped it right over the end and around and down the side of the branch. It worked much better.
I have noticed some of my scars are too big and lumpy. Maybe i will try an experiment and seal a few wounds on the same tree with different pastes.
cheers
neal.

Hi Neal if you have access to old copies of "bonsai today". No 3 page 55 has a fantasic article on drastic pruning of azalea. They show you how to remove large pieces over a 12 month period using damp rags in the cuts to prevent them drying out.
I am in the process of preparing a training course for the yarra valley club so I have all my old issues spread on the table around me for making notes.
Craig

This thread is very interesting to me as I have never sealed a cut but recently been noticing some shocking scars etc and thinking I spend so much time thinking about these things why am I so lazy on this issue!
If I understand what has been said
The tube has a soft past in it which should be used for hard barked varieties such as Pines, Chinese Elm, Juniper etc.
The pot has a putty in it which should be used to seal and cover the whole area of the softer bark varieties such as Maples and I am guessing figs etc.

Next question is do most of the Nurseries stock both or not?

In Bonsai the sealing of cuts is to facilitate the healing of the scars, so the ones with the hormone added to assist this process are good. Hiro told me the same not to thick.

As for sealing larger trees as in the garden or parks. I was told by an arborist that by the time you have put the sealant on, you have sealed in any nasty spores that are going to infect the tree. So it is best left off.
If you are worried about it splitting leave a collar, and the wrap some steel around to stop it. He suggested Hoop iron that bricklayers use.

Cheers Pup

If anyone wants some Shin Kyonal Paste from Japan - I have them for $15 a tube plus postage (got them back when the rate was good).

+I use an Australian product, made by Kendon, called GRAFTING MASTIC BZ.
The label says:- “A softer waterproof sealing medium for horticultural purposes.
Particularly suitable for Sealing Grafts,
Treating Large Tree Wounds,
Root Grafting of Nursery Trees.
Cold to moderate climate formulation or for use in winter.”
(and, No I don’t have shares in the company!)
I have been using this wax based mastic for at least four years and I have the other Japanese products also but hardly use them. I use the grey paste over the BZ mastic on grey bark trees to camouflage the wound and I use the grey paste as a cap to seal excessive sap flow.
Later I would seal with the BZ mastic.
The reason I like BZ Mastic is that it doesn’t harden and crack or lift off the scar. Being a wax, on a warm day it softens and spreads.
It comes in a 500g plastic jar that you can put your hand in.
If bought from a Kendon supplier it should cost less than $20.

craigw60 wrote:Hi Neal if you have access to old copies of "bonsai today". No 3 page 55 has a fantasic article on drastic pruning of azalea. They show you how to remove large pieces over a 12 month period using damp rags in the cuts to prevent them drying out.
I am in the process of preparing a training course for the yarra valley club so I have all my old issues spread on the table around me for making notes.
Craig

Thanks Craig that sounds interesting. The bonsai workshop may have it in their library. I will have a look, unfortunately i will miss the next meeting. Do you ever have problems with the putty type sealer drying out and peeling off like aussie4bonsai mentioned later in this thread? I have noticed that happening.

Leigh Taafe wrote:If anyone wants some Shin Kyonal Paste from Japan - I have them for $15 a tube plus postage (got them back when the rate was good).

Leigh

if you have the putty let me know as i have alot of pruning this winter and am running low

cheers