AusBonsai

Now how was that for a mouthful, certainly not what you originally asked for, but it's just how I feel about a tree.

Thanks for your input Loretta, and I do appreciate it. In actual fact, it's exactly what I was asking for - suggestions from other members. What you wrote is very valid and makes a whole lot of sense. It would be a bit of a shame to lose all that heritage. I believe Shohin is suitable in a number of instances, but not in a tree of this girth and height. With a 380mm base I think this tree would look totally out of proportion at 200 - 250mm high. By the way, if I did cut that apex timber off, it would lose 7 inches, not two.

I guess splitting it into two is another option Gavin, but the tree would then lose the appeal of that wide base and extreme taper. There are actually four live veins - two on the left and two on the right (red arrows in the photo). If the tree didn't have all that character from the two main branches down to the base, it could possibly be an option. To cut it as you suggested, all I could see of the results would be two pretty featureless trunks with each piece only having foliage on the one side only - and a whole lot more dead wood.

There are a few other options I've just thought of:

One is to take cuttings from the ones we have in the garden, wait for them to grow some decent roots then 'phoenix graft' a couple up the front to the top following the lines of the live veins (even to the extent of putting them against the live veins so they fuse with them).

Another option would be to again use rooted cuttings and thread graft them through from the back. If they came out right at the top of the right hand live vein so that they fused with it - and then followed the curvature and grain of the dead section, a new apex could be formed.

One more would be to use that shoot in this photo marked by the blue arrow. It has two twigs on it and the right one is close to the trunk. If I carve a shallow groove in the trunk again following the curvature and grain of the dead wood and pin the twig in the groove - and continually pin it in place as it grows, it could be directed upwards. Once again, that twig could create a new apex.

Any thoughts on these options or any other ideas from anyone?

GavinG wrote:Because each side is so strong, and there's no middle or top, would it be possible to split the trunk vertically, and get two trees, each going one direction? There's a lovely live vein under the right branches that would possibly stand out more strongly if the bulk of the stump were less.

Just my random thoughts,

Gavin

Hi Gavin

As I see it and I've seen it in many photos of Japanese and collective asian bonsai, the purpose of having a tree in a tray or pot is to mimic nature in the best possible way, and I think these myrtles do just that. The aim is to enable your tree to retain it's previous glory, still look massive in a small container with all it's warts and gnarls, it's story of a previous life of hardship and neglect in some cases, so I don't see the point in cutting 30 years off of it. You are erasing it's heritage.
If these trees were cut in half you then have the problem of artificially creating a story with a totally flat side and you'd probably end up with an oblong tree. No matter what you did with the flat cut side it would never match up with the original uncut sides, and then I think you would regret having cut it in the first place. I really think there are times when it might be neccessary to cut a tree but I don't think this is one of them. These trees are beautiful. This is my opinion only.
cheers Loretta

Man i love the work you're doin on these myrtles!!! SENSATIONAL

Update on this tree.

I've wired everything down, and used the inner tube technique on two of the main branches that were pointing more towards the front. I got them both moved approx 20 deg, so they aren't so eye poking now. I still have a problem with the second main branch on the right side. That one points directly forward and up. If I cut it straight off, the live vein below it will die - and I don't want that to happen. Even using the inner tube technique, I don't believe I can get that branch to move enough. There is absolutely no 'give' in it at all, and I believe it would snap off at the base if I tried it.

So, I've wired one of the long shoots from the left side across the trunk, and when it extends to that particular branch, I'll thread graft it through - as close to the trunk as I can safely get it. Once it has fused and is growing strong, I'll cut the main branch off.

In the second photo (taken from the left side straight across the trunk), the red arrow shows the branch I'm referring to, and the blue arrow points to the long shoot wired across the trunk. Hope that all makes sense

Keep your fingers crossed

Tman wrote:Update on this tree.

I still have a problem with the second main branch on the right side. That one points directly forward and up. If I cut it straight off, the live vein below it will die - and I don't want that to happen. Even using the inner tube technique, I don't believe I can get that branch to move enough. There is absolutely no 'give' in it at all, and I believe it would snap off at the base if I tried it.


Keep your fingers crossed

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Hi Taffy,

Your tree is really looking great and it's a shame about that branch. Could you not cut it back to the first growth from the trunk...it will only come forward that little way and you could wire the new growth to the side, Just put a big curve in it. You might find that it will even shoot again closer to the trunk. It's hard to say when you don't see the full size and scope of the tree.
Anyway, while I'm here I may as well show you my CM. As you can see, I'm using the timber across the pot as an anchor to loop wire over the soft growth and encourage a bend. I've removed all the growth from the bottom as I don't want the trunk any bigger than it is. I'm not trying to steal your post, just thought you'd be interested. I just hope it ends up looking as good as yours

Hey, you're not 'stealing' my post Loretta. It was you that started it in the first place, so all I was doing was adding to your topic
You want to add photos - you go right ahead, they are still Crape Myrtles and that we're talking about!

Yours have a lot more foliage than mine at the moment - that's because of your location and warmer temps.
I think you've done the right thing at this stage in not wiring those branches. Pulling them down as you've done is a far better way to go with such young growth. I'd be more inclined to pull even more of them down - so that eventually, you have a lot more choice when it comes to the development of your tree.

Do you intend keeping the two trunks or do you think that eventually, you'd reduce it to one? If you want those shoots to branch out more, pinch the red tips out of the ends. It'll stop the forward growth of the tips and encourage the tree to branch out more along the length of the twigs/branches. Just be careful, you don't take off the whole shoot when you do it though - they really are very fragile.

Since I've re-potted mine over the last couple of weeks, they're going absolutely berserk. Those two photos I've just posted were taken two days ago, and now I've got bud burst all over them - they'll be catching up with yours soon. Incidentally, I re-potted mine in Diatomite and potting mix - 60D/40pm ratio.

Do you intend keeping the two trunks or do you think that eventually, you'd reduce it to one?

Good Morning Taffy,

I thought I'd practice with this length first to see how I manage wiring and shaping first. Seeing as those trunks have no shape charcter or age like yours I thought I'd chop them off where they join once the tree has established properly. I've got to encourage the growth lower down to that area, but at the moment it's training me
Loretta