AusBonsai

A fellow by the name of John Holbrook mentioned to me quite a few years ago that he had thread grafted JBP by retaining a single terminal bud and wrapping the needles with raffia and threading the branch through the hole. In theory, there is no reason why this technique will not work on JBP.

With thread grafting on other species, I have found that you need to drill a hole that is noticeably larger in diameter than the shoot you are going to push through. You are not after a tight fit in the beginning, that comes when the shoot at the exit side of the trunk increases in diameter, due to being allowed unrestricted growth. The parent branch is detached when there is an obvious size difference between the shoot on the entry side and exit side.

Cheers,
Mojo

Scott Roxburgh wrote:Grant,

Nice technique, I would think that the size of the trunk could only be as wide as the new growth/bud could grow in one season?

I have seen approach grafts work really well on JBP and also grafting JBP to a number of native US pines, I have yet to try any grafting on pines but have seen results 18 months on that looked promising and 10 y.o. approach grafts where the 'mating' of the graft was really clean and hard to notice.

What benefits do you see with this method over approach grafting?

Hi Scott,

A black pine can elongate a lot in one season (15cm or more).

I see the advantage of this method being less hit or miss. Also approach or inarch grafting to a trunk is difficult.

grant

Hi Grant , sorry but i have to disagree with reguards to Inarching/approach grafting , i have several JBP with 30+ inarch grafts on them . I severed 1 after a single season and found they bleed back down through the cut so i wrapped grafting tape around the wound on its still alive and growing today .The others will remain in place until this season is finished then they too will be severed .I set 32 grafts on 3 trunks , some were double grafted onto 2 separate trunks the only casualties were damaged by the young fella and his basket ball snapping 2 off .Cheers Alpine

alpineart wrote:Hi Grant , sorry but i have to disagree with reguards to Inarching/approach grafting , i have several JBP with 30+ inarch grafts on them . I severed 1 after a single season and found they bleed back down through the cut so i wrapped grafting tape around the wound on its still alive and growing today .The others will remain in place until this season is finished then they too will be severed .I set 32 grafts on 3 trunks , some were double grafted onto 2 separate trunks the only casualties were damaged by the young fella and his basket ball snapping 2 off .Cheers Alpine

No worries,

I should have said for the method may be easier for those who are not as practiced at grafting or horticulture generally.

Grant

Grant Bowie wrote:

ozzy wrote:Why isn't the branch just pulled right through as per the usual branch grafting method?, I've got a radiata here I could try that on.

It may be difficult to push the branch all the way through a tight hole without damaging the bud.

Plus if the technique works as described why would you need bother with a more iffy technique..

Also answer is I don't know. Lots to play with here.

Grant

After a bit of discussion here at the collection we feel the reason for not dragging/pushing the branch the whole way through could be twofold.

1. You only have a single bud at the tip; whereas with deciduous trees if you damage one bud as you drag it through you have others.
2. You then have to try and marry up bared cambium layers to get a union; whereas here the bud pushing its way through is not barked up and should merge with the cambium on the trunk/branch.

That is our best guess anyhow.

Grant

Grant Bowie wrote:

Scott Roxburgh wrote:Grant,

Nice technique, I would think that the size of the trunk could only be as wide as the new growth/bud could grow in one season?

I have seen approach grafts work really well on JBP and also grafting JBP to a number of native US pines, I have yet to try any grafting on pines but have seen results 18 months on that looked promising and 10 y.o. approach grafts where the 'mating' of the graft was really clean and hard to notice.

What benefits do you see with this method over approach grafting?

Hi Scott,

A black pine can elongate a lot in one season (15cm or more).

I see the advantage of this method being less hit or miss. Also approach or inarch grafting to a trunk is difficult.

grant

Another advantage over approach grafting maybe that the new branch will be more stable in the hole through the trunk and come out at a predetermined natural angle.

Grant

I've never had a problem with breaking growing tips off when doing thread grafts. I get a straw, cut it a couple of centimetres longer than the diameter of the trunk and split it down the side. Open it up, put it over the donor branch and gently slide it completely over the tip. If the hole is narrower than the straw, just roll the straw until it is right against the donor branch - you'd be surprised just how small they will roll up. Push the straw through the drilled hole and when it exits the other side, slide the straw off. It's excellent for using on Figs because if you get any sap on the growing tip, it is highly likely that the tip won't open - because it's been 'glued' together by the latex and I guess that could apply with other species as well. For example: trees that exude copious amounts of sap or resin when cut.

Tman
That is the reason I love this site.
That is awesome. Ive never heard that idea before but it would work with Maples etc etc where I need to try and protect the buds which are developing.

I may be showing my ignorance here, as I have one JPB and not had it long enough to be conversant with its growing habits. I want to know it you have to cut off the whole of the doner branch - once the graft has taken can you just cut it at the entry point, and leave the doner branch to continue growng? Will JPB backbud along that branch?

Glenda

Glenda wrote:I may be showing my ignorance here, as I have one JPB and not had it long enough to be conversant with its growing habits. I want to know it you have to cut off the whole of the doner branch - once the graft has taken can you just cut it at the entry point, and leave the doner branch to continue growng? Will JPB backbud along that branch?

Glenda

There should be a number of growing points on the donor branch so when you separate it from the trunk it will have other points to grow.

I will do a sketch,

grant

Tman wrote:I've never had a problem with breaking growing tips off when doing thread grafts. I get a straw, cut it a couple of centimetres longer than the diameter of the trunk and split it down the side. Open it up, put it over the donor branch and gently slide it completely over the tip. If the hole is narrower than the straw, just roll the straw until it is right against the donor branch - you'd be surprised just how small they will roll up. Push the straw through the drilled hole and when it exits the other side, slide the straw off. It's excellent for using on Figs because if you get any sap on the growing tip, it is highly likely that the tip won't open - because it's been 'glued' together by the latex and I guess that could apply with other species as well. For example: trees that exude copious amounts of sap or resin when cut.

I also love the idea of a straw! Thats why I put it out there to see what other people thought or knew,

Grant

Grant Bowie wrote:

Glenda wrote:I may be showing my ignorance here, as I have one JPB and not had it long enough to be conversant with its growing habits. I want to know it you have to cut off the whole of the doner branch - once the graft has taken can you just cut it at the entry point, and leave the doner branch to continue growng? Will JPB backbud along that branch?

Glenda

There should be a number of growing points on the donor branch so when you separate it from the trunk it will have other points to grow.

I will do a sketch,

grant

I hope this helps. I would use a lower but strong branch to use as the donor branch. If you have a season to prepare it I would let the central tip grow without candle snapping or cutting that strong central tip. The donor branch must have side branching to take over once the donated portion is cut off. I would allow 18 months for the new branch to graft into place and thicken.(It may swell at the new branch junction). Once it is noticeably thicker you could remove the donor branch at its entry point. Reposition the old branch to its postion and shape the foliage that is left.
Only lightly wire or manhandle the new branch that has grafted for a while. I hope this helps.

Grant

Thanks for that, Grant. I will file that away for future reference.

Glenda

Grant:
The candle is placed completely through the thread hole The area where needles that have been plucked off from below the candle is where the cambium should be trying to match up. The repair work where the needls where plucked off helps cambium inarching.
In Sydney I am finding all the approach grafts on pines push apart in the autumn and bleed to much resin if performed in Late summer / early Autumn. That is why on seeing this method I picked up as much information as I could get.
Barefoot.

barefoot wrote:Grant:
The candle is placed completely through the thread hole The area where needles that have been plucked off from below the candle is where the cambium should be trying to match up. The repair work where the needls where plucked off helps cambium inarching.
In Sydney I am finding all the approach grafts on pines push apart in the autumn and bleed to much resin if performed in Late summer / early Autumn. That is why on seeing this method I picked up as much information as I could get.
Barefoot.

Ah, thanks. Could you elaborate even more? Certainly spring is the time to do it?

Grant