Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

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Jow
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

Mojo Moyogi wrote:Hi Jow, my experience with P.radiata is mostly limited to fairly well behaved trees with established branches, I do have a couple at approx. 30yrs old that would benefit from interior branching in places where there are currently no buds.

I was thinking that perhaps a strategy for getting Radiata to back bud on older wood may be to feed the tree well throughout the growing season and cut deep into the vigourous growth late in the season. I'm not sure if this would be appropriate if you are trying to force budding on existing branches while retaining the structure that you have, it would more likely be a procedure for rebuilding branches from scratch.

With your prefered soil, plenty of water and feed, I'd think that you would be able to get Radiata growing quite vigorously, despite the confines of a bonsai container.

Cheers,
Mojo
The technique you are suggesting is an interesting one. If you look at the picture i posted above of one of my trees you will see the 10+ fertiliser cakes on it. I feed heavily. the only thing i did differently to your technique was to remove all candles around xmass time. I found that doing that the tree didnt really respond. it sulked while the black pines around it all budded up. Perhaps a later prune like you and craig suggest will return better results. I am guessing though that late pruning will not yeild a seccond flush of growth before spring.

Thanks for the input its all helpful in getting a better idea of how to drive these pines a little better than how i currently am.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

bodhidharma wrote:Nice pine Jow, should have entered it in the Literati comp :yes: Your question prompted me to read my notes and the Red pine training is basically the same as JBP's. I have growing and training directions from a collaboration of notes from various Japanese articles including John Naka and collated by Jeffry Farman.This is the tree i am working on and learning with. I also have some Red Pines that i want to develop and i think they are a little similar to Radiata's.
Nice looking stock you have there, i am sure once the new roots are established and you have a more compact trunk the tree will have a bright future. I know Elias has also been successful layering radiatas without much of a problem. Perhaps he can give some insight into which layering method he used. I wonder if using layering to collect interesting pieces of stock would be feasible?

Thanks for taking the time to post your tree. Hopefully you keep us up to date with the results after separation.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jarrod »

Yeah Elias and I have been testing layering Radiatas with great success. The method used was just the standard full ring bark with Spagnum, done late summer, early Autumn. 100% success so far (only done 2 to date).

I have also found that trees collected in Autumn responded far faster then those collected in spring. I am still yet to refine any of mine so I have no real input in that respect.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by craigw60 »

Hi Jow, I find winter and spring are the major growing seasons for my radiata, I prune them during the autumn and open up the foliage pads to allow light in for the growing season. My experience is that they move pretty slowly over the summer months.I am definitely pruning this years growth at this time of year.
I also feed them all year round
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

craigw60 wrote:Hi Jow, I find winter and spring are the major growing seasons for my radiata, I prune them during the autumn and open up the foliage pads to allow light in for the growing season. My experience is that they move pretty slowly over the summer months.I am definitely pruning this years growth at this time of year.
I also feed them all year round
Craigw
Thats interesting Craig. I have noticed a slowing down over the summer.

This year i removed needles last autumn. Fed all winter and then pinched strong candles in half or down to a third diring the spring growing season. It seemed to work quite well. On one tree i am now getting a seccond flush of buds extending in juvenile growth (mainly in 1-2 year old wood.)

I will again remove needles and excess buds this autumn and see how spring goes next year.

Joe.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

Jarrod wrote:Yeah Elias and I have been testing layering Radiatas with great success. The method used was just the standard full ring bark with Spagnum, done late summer, early Autumn. 100% success so far (only done 2 to date).

I have also found that trees collected in Autumn responded far faster then those collected in spring. I am still yet to refine any of mine so I have no real input in that respect.
Useful information Jarrod. Thanks. I will have to give layering a shot.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

Jow wrote:
craigw60 wrote:Hi Jow, I find winter and spring are the major growing seasons for my radiata, I prune them during the autumn and open up the foliage pads to allow light in for the growing season. My experience is that they move pretty slowly over the summer months.I am definitely pruning this years growth at this time of year.
I also feed them all year round
Craigw
Thats interesting Craig. I have noticed a slowing down over the summer.

This year i removed needles last autumn. Fed all winter and then pinched strong candles in half or down to a third diring the spring growing season. It seemed to work quite well. On one tree i am now getting a seccond flush of buds extending in juvenile growth (mainly in 1-2 year old wood.)

I will again remove needles and excess buds this autumn and see how spring goes next year.

Joe.
One more question Craig, When the growth begins to extend in spring are you pinching it at all? If i left my pruning until Autumn without pinching i think i would have a foot of growth on some shoots so i am assuming that you are pinching the candles as they come out at some stage......

Joe.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by craigw60 »

I find the spring growth to be variable from candle to candle so I pinch out the strongest candles and leave the weak ones, trying to balance the growth a bit. I also pull the needles hanging under the branches as they appear, both for aesthetics and to keep the light flowing into the lower branches.
Craigw
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

craigw60 wrote:I find the spring growth to be variable from candle to candle so I pinch out the strongest candles and leave the weak ones, trying to balance the growth a bit. I also pull the needles hanging under the branches as they appear, both for aesthetics and to keep the light flowing into the lower branches.
Craigw
Thanks for that added information Craig. That sounds on par with what i have done up to this point this year. I will have to look at doing an autumn prune as you described above to see how that works out.

Joe.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by anttal63 »

I believe you're on the money CraigW !!!big time!!! In my limited experince this timing and method has also worked with JBP and Mugo. Just need to protect from frost and still have in full sun. :tu:
Last edited by anttal63 on March 18th, 2011, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards Antonio:
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jow »

Just thought i would add some images to spur on the discussion.

Two trees. Both treated the same as far as feeding and pruning timing. I pinched the strong candles on both trees as they formed in spring. One is older and needs a repot. The other is a younger tree and was repotted this year.
IMG_0005a.jpg
IMG_0004a.jpg
IMG_0002a.jpg
IMG_0001a.jpg
Anyone have any comments or observations? Do you trees look like either of the above pics at this time of year?
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Handy Mick »

Hey Jow, great topic you have going here.
I to am interested in the growing of Radiata, I collected 4 last winter, I live in the middle of a couple of pine forrests so they were easy pickings.
When i collected, i bare rotted them as it is sandy soil the soil just fell away anyhow, but i brought some soil home with them, when i potted them up the medium i used was about 1/3 original sand/soil, 1/3 gravel or crushed brick, 1/6 potting mix, 1/6 riversand. a very open sandy mix.
The whole 4 kept growing like they did not even know they were moved and put in pots, i pinched them back in the next season, spring. i had also pinched back new buds and removed older needles this season. they are happy and so am i.
I will post pictures later.

Mick

I am interested in how big the air layers were that Jarrod had done and how big does he think he could do. As i said i'm basicly between two forests, we have large Radiatas linning the roads and some have shot where they were trimmied and would make awsome bonsais.
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Mojo Moyogi »

Jow wrote:Just thought i would add some images to spur on the discussion.

Two trees. Both treated the same as far as feeding and pruning timing. I pinched the strong candles on both trees as they formed in spring. One is older and needs a repot. The other is a younger tree and was repotted this year.
IMG_0005a.jpg
IMG_0004a.jpg
IMG_0002a.jpg
IMG_0001a.jpg
Anyone have any comments or observations? Do you trees look like either of the above pics at this time of year?

Hi Jow,
I think the bud response of both trees tells a story here. The older tree that needs repotting shows signs of very limited growth this season and it now looks like it has stopped growing for this year. It looks like a Radiata does in mid winter, before buds begin to swell. The younger tree on the other hand, appears to have a profusion of buds as a result of the earlier candle pinching and is bolting along happily, as there is still some growing season left.

I'm sure that the comparative age of the trees plays a part in the difference in vigour, but I reckon the biggest factor is that one tree has a bit of root run, while the other has restriction below soil level that is mirrored in lack of growth above. Mature Radiatas do behave like younger trees when provided with fresh, open soil with plenty of feed and water.

This is an excellent topic, this species grows well in most parts of Australia and is readily available as collected material. I hope we can discover how to use both of these types of growth to achieve what we should all be looking for with this species: Well structured, ramified branches with shorter needle length.

Cheers,
Mojo
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Jarrod »

So far we have layered 5-7cm. But will be trying 10-20cm soon. Let you know the success rate in spring!
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Re: Who is growing Pinus radiata (Monterey Pine)?

Post by Handy Mick »

Jarrod, how long does it take to get a layer for say 50mm dia and in what month do you set them?

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