how do u create a sumo (big) trunk fig ?

[Mojo Moyogi]

Personal attack?

Above, I made a comment that is fact. In return it was implied that I am a troll.

Brett, In the past I have offered advice, in good faith, to those who have needed it including yourself, some of which was thrown back in my face. In other threads I have been offering assistance to others, which you have taken it upon youself to intervene in and assert that I do not know what I am talking about. Given that I have been growing bonsai for almost 15 years, professionally and for my own pleasure, am a qualified horticulturalist and have been working in the horticulture industry for 10 years, I am entitled to find such behaviour disrespectful, am I not?

Again I have not attacked anybody, nor have I stepped outside of what was the spirit of ausbonsai. When the nannies find this post to be too controversial and decide to delete it, it will be my last.

Mojo

PS

There is no reason why Graeme's growing method won't produce great trunks in a relitively short period. To create convincing trunk bases and nebari on figs it is important to have roots growing strongly horizontal from the very beginning.

[Bougy Fan]

Hi Guys
It's up to you what happens to this thread now - it started well but is starting to deteriorate. If the off topic crap continues it will be cut to pieces or possibly the whole thread binned. This is a great thread reviving a topic which should get some exposure every so often for anyone new.

Let's keep it polite and respectful and us nannies wont have to do anything but tend our own trees


Tony

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi Guys
It's up to you what happens to this thread now - it started well but is starting to deteriorate. If the off topic crap continues it will be cut to pieces or possibly the whole thread binned. This is a great thread reviving a topic which should get some exposure evrey so often for anyone new.

Let's keep it polite and respectful and us nannies wont have to do anything but tend our own trees


Tony

Amen to that Tony.

I grow figs in Diatomite. Brett, what do you grow your figs in?





Cheers,
Mojo

[kcpoole]

I grow mine in Diatomite / Zeolite mix and find they do great but am not really after super fast growth.
I fertilise heavily with Dynamic lifter or Neutrog Sudden impact along with Liquid ferts every few weeks

I think Brett has some figs in Grahams fast growth method Mix as well as others in Kitty litter, Crushed brick etc.
Be interesting to see the differences between the mixes tho

Ken

[Graeme]

Great point there Mojo. Irrespective of how you grow any tree, the trunk will thicken a heck of a lot quicker if the outermost roots are grown as horizontally as possible and the inner ones removed, forcing those remaining roots to do all the work. Ceramic tiles are the greatest aid to thickening tree roots, even over fertiliser I fear.

[Bretts]

Personal attack?

Above, I made a comment that is fact. In return it was implied that I am a troll.

Think your mistaken agian Mojo. I never implied that at all. I thought what I said was very striaght forward and simple. I have always encouraged opinions wether they are the same as mine or not. But believe we should be able to have these discussions without trolling and personal attacks.

Brett, In the past I have offered advice, in good faith, to those who have needed it including yourself, some of which was thrown back in my face. In other threads I have been offering assistance to others, which you have taken it upon youself to intervene in and assert that I do not know what I am talking about. Given that I have been growing bonsai for almost 15 years, professionally and for my own pleasure, am a qualified horticulturalist and have been working in the horticulture industry for 10 years, I am entitled to find such behaviour disrespectful, am I not?

I am not one to demand that others show thier trees to prove they know what they are talking about as others do (I understand you and others may have your reasons) but considering you have never shown one of your trees(maybe one or two that are no longer in your care ?)
To suggest that it is disrespectful for someone else to disagree with you may be pushing it a little to far.

I grow my figs in several different substrates. As in Graeme's suggested technique, diatomite, chandlers akadama and a general inorganic/organic mix.
I can't say which is working best for me yet!

[bodhidharma]

I have been fast growing a few figs now with great results, I use it in my potting mix which has been recorded here. I use a combination of b&b and a complete organic fertiliser. I completely cover the top of the grow box on a fortnightly, monthly basis (sometimes i forget) The biggest problem i encounter is the eradict weather behavior. The trees do really well in full sun but if the nights get cold and i have to move my trees into protection from frosts they virtually stop growing. I know it is a good case for a glass house environment but where does it stop. It has been my experience that you can not make a fig frost hardy but i know of one in Lorne, Victoria which is virtually growing on the beach and it thrives. Go figure. Dont know the species.

[Bretts]

I have the same issue here with Figs Bodi. It takes a while for them to get going after Winter. Last year they where hit quite hard by the frost. I bring the occasional one inside over Winter.
I would have thought the beach was a pretty good enviroment for the Figs as it does not get as cold close to the ocean. I can remember a couple in my travels that grow very close to the beach but not in beach sand if that is what you mean?

[craigw60]

I also grow a few figs in a relatively cold climate. At the risk of sounding like a stuck record I find the figs do much better over the winter months if they are kept very dry, it seems to me cold and dry is ok for them but cold and wet stops them in their tracks. With regards to developing very thick trunks I would say the essentials are a radial root system coupled with some heavy scarring under the trunks, I do this with parrot beak cutters. The other requirement is some big strong sacrifice branches low down on the trunk and of course a good fertilising regime during the growing season.
Craigw

[Guy]

thanks for this---I have learn't that my fertilizing regime is hopelessly inadequate--think I might seasol everything now and wait for spring when I will double or triple my efforts--a couple of years ago I killed two nice english elms by over fertilizing-
been perhaps too tentative ever since.

[Bretts]

Funny you say that Guy. One thing I have learn't from the fig DL mix to is that Figs love heaps of DL. And I also seemed to have killed a small tree from an overdose of DL some years back.
I was really happy with this little birch. Lucked out with a perfect root spread straight from the tube stock. Potted up and cut back hard several times as it was growing fast. Added some DL one day and within an hour or so it was drooping and the trunk showed signs of death. You could actually see a dead section in the trunk whithin this time Removed the DL flushed the soil for ages but the tree died.
Made me very carefull about putting too much on after that but I reckon I have put that much on agian now to other trees with no ill affects.
I can only wonder if it was a combination of cutting the tree back hard at least twice in the season plus the fertiliser that did it?

[Graeme]

One of the truelly great parts of following the science of Bonsai is, IMHO, there are none. This of course has a few down sides, one of which is that mates can get into some real bad bust ups with fellow mates and that really should never happen. AS I said, there is no science to Bonsai, or to growing plants in general. This fact was boune out to me when I had my Nursery a few years back. Mine was only a small affair with just me, my missus (part time as she had a real job ) and two staff. I have on many occasions stood at the propagating bench with my staff members sticking cuttings into tubes. Those cuttings were all cut by the same staffer, put into the same bucket of water and planted at the same time into the same propagating mix, just by three different people. The results of that were surprising sometimes. I could never get my Murraya cuttings to take, whereas my junior staffer would usually get around 99-100% strike rate. I, on the other hand was the only one in the nursery to get Wrightii Religeosa to strike. Go figure No science, just what works for you works for you and may not work for me.

On the DL subject. In the past there have been a few quality control problems with this product. It was released a few times under cooked, which meant it was a much stronger pellet than normal and that lead to problems when applied at the "normal" rates. I believe it was once manufactured in a 'franchise' type arrangement, but due to the problems encountered is now made under strickter controls. And yep, not all Bonsai subject share our love for DL, give an Azalea a good belt of it and watch what happens. (Please don't actually do it, take my word, the result is not good.)

Have to agree with you as well Craig. While I have, thankfully, not had to put up with any of that cold and wet stuff you speak about my research also shows that figs will do a whole lot better if kept a little on the dry side over the colder months. They don't like frozen feet, much like me, from what I can figure out.

[daiviet_nguyen]

...I, on the other hand was the only one in the nursery to get Wrightii Religeosa to strike. Go figure No science, just what works for you works for you and may not work for me...

Hi Graeme,

You are lucky to have Wrightia Religiosa! There are some magnificent ones in South East Asia... Do they give you flowers yet? And how did you get hold of them in the first place?

Thank you and best regards.

(--Sorry, I do realise that this is about figs )

[Mojo Moyogi]

Funny you say that Guy. One thing I have learn't from the fig DL mix to is that Figs love heaps of DL. And I also seemed to have killed a small tree from an overdose of DL some years back.
I was really happy with this little birch. Lucked out with a perfect root spread straight from the tube stock. Potted up and cut back hard several times as it was growing fast. Added some DL one day and within an hour or so it was drooping and the trunk showed signs of death. You could actually see a dead section in the trunk whithin this time Removed the DL flushed the soil for ages but the tree died.
Made me very carefull about putting too much on after that but I reckon I have put that much on agian now to other trees with no ill affects.
I can only wonder if it was a combination of cutting the tree back hard at least twice in the season plus the fertiliser that did it?

I doubt that it was the fertiliser that killed it Brett, probably just finished it off. For an overdose of DL to cause visible signs of death in the wood within an hour is extremely unlikely, the tree most likely had a pre exiting condition, perhaps over watering/poor drainage/poor soil.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Bretts]

I know it sounds strange Mojo. Being years ago when I first started I can't say with any confidence what really happened. I feel it was not the soil as the tree was growing so strong. I think I trunk chopped the little taker three times in one season.
Then agian back then maybe I did not acount for the less water it would use after chopping?
I did put some pics of it up on the old IBC. Can't get those pics at the moment but will try to remember to post them one day. It was pretty amazing how you could see the trunk die in a matter of hours.
It is also a pity as I have not grown birch since as after this I heard how difficult some have found them for bonsai as in back budding. Some say they have found no trouble this way which makes me wonder if it is a variation in species that makes the difference?
I will have to try one from seedling agian.