Collected Quercus suber...

[Dario]

Yeah, I too generally love trees with cork bark! Did you see the beautiful cork on Steven's Cas that he entered in the shohin comp?
I didn't realise there is a Melaleuca with cork bark...thanks Craig!...and thanks for the link too it Hornet!
It looks great I wonder if many people (or any members here), have used it for bonsai?
Craig wrote..."Dario, those cutting look good mate, plenty to play with.
They are tough alright ,like you say when they're growing is a good time to repot."...
Yes I guess I did answer my own question about when to repot suber Craig. The only difference I can think of is that when they are starting to grow coming out of dormency, the temperatures are still quite mild and therefore there is less chance of water being lost from the tree via the leaves due to transpiration...unlike early summer etc.
Having said that, I am sure your suber will be fine with your recent repot and I could probably do mine too...still I think that is probably the main concern for a tree surviving when being repotted when it is warmer despite the fact that it is growing.
In early Autumn the leaves will pretty much have finished growing for the season but as the soil is still warm, the roots will be growing. As well as the fact that toward the end of summer trees generally shift gears and transfer the energy that they produced via photosynthesis in the spring and early summer, into the roots as it is now their turn for a rampant growth spurt before the cold weather sets in and they are forced to store their energy and go dormant before the cycle starts again next year.
That is why I will proceed with a repot in Autumn instead...as the roots should recover quickly and continue growing without having to delay foliage growth due to the roots recovering...as happens when repotting at this time of year. In other words, I believe I will get to maximise shoot growth by doing it this way.
Sorry to have a rant! I was just thinking out loud?
What do you think Craig?
Cheers, Dario.

[Craig]

What do you think Craig?

Dario, you must love typing and yep,yep, and yep, sounds like you have covered all bases mate. i'll post that small one up soon ,oh , i found a real small one i keep forgetting about aswell-no cork yet it's like your cuttings

[Dario]

Sorry Craig, I was just thinking it out as I wrote it. No I don't enjoy typing at all, but it is kind of like learning a musical instument in a way...muscular memory in your fingers...remembering where to put them and trying to get faster.
I am pretty anal in that I do like lots of details and really enjoy posts that have stacks of info. Althuogh some of FlyBri's picture style doco threads are also great!
Maybe I should tone it down a little and write less?? HELP...having a paranoia attack!!
So here are a few pics of the suber that I posted at the start of this thread. The trunk has been cut back further (about three weeks back) and I should of trimed the branches at the same time, but stupidly waited a couple of weeks before doing so. The funny thing is that I should really trim the higher branches back a little more and get rid of some entirely, concentrating on the final branches. But although I know how high I would like this one to be eventually, I am not exactly sure of which branches to keep. I understand the principal of thirds in the branch positioning but I am still unsure. I think that amongst other things that is partly because it has a slightly slanted aspect to it even though it is an informal upright...if that makes sense. I have another suber that is 100% in the slanted style, but I haven't really touched it as I find that style really difficult at this stage.
I figure its all part of learning and that I will get there in the end, even if it takes a bit more time.
Cut back the trunk horizontally at first...

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Then cut it back on the angle to the new leader...

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I still don't have any wire currently but I will get some next week. I have tied down some of the branches to let more light in and got rid of a couple that I was sure wouldn't be needed...still need to get rid of more though. It has started budding.
I am anoyed at myself for pruning back the two lowest branches that I new I was to keep as sacrifices to help thicke the lower trunk. I guess I got carried away and wasn't thinking at the time...Oh well?
Will post another pic when I wire it. And update it again when I repot it in early Autumn.
Cheers, Dario.
Yes Craig I probably have writen too much yet again, but I know how much you love reading! Craig, any suggestion on which branches to keep?...or are the pics too cruddy? I am thinking that I only want a few branches on the corked up trunk, and most of them on the new leader when that thickens and is shaped over the next few years. I plan to let that get as big as possible over the next couple of growing seasons. I could make a shorter bonsai, but I am shooting for the 5:1 ratio and figure it will take me around another 5 to 10 years till it gets sort of near what I want from it.
Any thoughts??

[Craig]

mate, nice ,

from what i can see ,i'd try to reduce the leaders to only one, maybe adjust the cut at the top to go from the leader to a lower back branch, with the cut facing back so you won't see it. Hollow out the wound carefully and it should with a couple of years heal ok, use cut paste. Try and read up on branches leaving the trunk on slanting trees, and on how branches grow on oaks,, generally starting upwards and weighing down over the years so the branch becomes more horizontal further from the trunk. On the slanted side (the left on these pics), the branches may grow differnt to the right ones depending on , how the tree became slanted in the first place. Did it grow slanted, suudenly blew over a bit in a storm or slowly started leaning to the left for whatever reasons, it all affects how branches would grow naturally and or should be trained. a couple of quick virts, not representing branch growth just ideas on how it may look,
One thing i have noticed is when i wired my branches, i put alot of movement in them(alot), but because they are such vigourous growers, if you don't rewire ,the bends will straighten out fairly quickly , need to keep ontop of wiring until the branches really set quite hard

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here's 2 Quercus subers from Mr Mauro Stemberger . http://www.italianbonsaidream.com/

[deepeetee]

Hey Craig and Dario,

I've really enjoyed this thread.

About a month ago i picked up a Corky bark Oak, having come from a nursery, it looks as though its getting to pot bound stage.

Do you think its safe enough to do a repot (maybe cut the root ball in half and a light tease).

Or leave it alone till Autumn

Dave

[Craig]

Dave ,

Great job on getting yourself a Suber, how big/thick is it mate ?. Can you get a pic up please .Is it a healthy tree ?.

Considering i'm on the other side Dario's advice may be more in line with where you are,, i would consider cutting the bottom part of the rootmass free ,i pretty much did a full repot, considering what size bag it was in and what size pot it is in now, but i did leave the main rootball intact soil and all. When repotting i worked new soil down into the existing/remaining part of the rootball and teased all the roots around the edges. depending on the roots, hard to tell without a visual.
As Dario says Autumn would be a good time aswell.

[Craig]

Here's the smaller Q. suber, took a little while to come good after repotting but is starting to grow well now.

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This is my smallest suber, no corkbark on this one yet but very good trunk taper, perfect for a smallish tree,

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A slightly better pic of the larger suber,

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Nice corky bark on the larger tree

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This is the bottom half of the larger trees rootball that i sawed off before starting to clean up the rootmass, it is 130mm thick.

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[Dario]

Hi Deepeetee, I am lkie Craig really glad that someone else is also getting into this awesome species of oak, well done mate!!
I think Craig is being rather too nice to me as the main experience I have to date is collecting. I am yet to get stuck into last years collected trees and reduce the rootball...as Craig says, that mission will be for this Autumn.
A picture would be great if you can post one mate!
I do know that Graham Potter says this species does not mind being root bound...but I think he is specifically refering to when it is in a bonsai pot?
This species is so tough, that if the tree is healthy, I am sure you could follow Craig's advice and repot know leaving the central root system intact, teasing the outer roots and working a good soil mix into that area as well...even if he is in Perth etc. I wouldn't wait long to do it though, or Autumn should also be a safe bet.
Cheers, Dario.

[Dario]

Hi Craig, and thanks for posting the latest pics of your subers...I am glad that you found the smallest one with no cork, as that will be great to! I also like the other smaller one that you have and will enjoy seeing it develop! Great cork bark on your biggest one and yes that is a good pic of it, thanks! Cheers too for detailing how you treated the root ball when repotting
Dario.

[Dario]

Hi Craig, thanks so much for the advice you gave with my suber! Those virt's are great!!...I wish I knew how to do them
This is a link that I found about how oaks grow, and I think it relates to what you were saying...
http://www.bssf.org/blogs/eric/styling-live-oaks/
It is really hard to tell from the quality of my pics, but I did (as you advise) make the cut facing to the back of my prefered front. It does also meet up with a lower branch, althou it is a very young branch, and I smeared a rather thin layer of cut paste over the wound as that was the last of my supply.
I had also had one last piece of wire that although not long enough and not the ideal size, I used to at least get the main leader twisting a little and pointing upwards.
The leader does have a very low branch, should I remove it?...or were you refering to higher up on that leader Craig?
As I ran out of wire, I tied down the ends of the branches with string so that more sunlight can reach in and help the tree out. Doing this may affect the angle that the branches leave the trunk as you pointed out, but I figure that as it is a short term thing, it shouldn't affect it too much...as you say, you need to rewire suber as they are such vigorous growers!
Once again, I really appreciate all your advice Craig...thanks mate!
Just took a few more pics and I hope you can see it a little better? The two lowest branches facing my ideal front weremeant to be the sacrifices to thicken the lower trunk, but I accidently pruned them Unfortunately they obscure the view of the trunk base in the pics...

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Cheers, Dario.

[Craig]

Nice one Dario ,

I was hoping that back branch was lower, so the chop isn't so square at the top, nevermind you can probly work around it or do something else latter when you get more branches to work with. I wouldn't try and straighten the leader up as it looks weak and might crack or worse break ,wait till it gets stronger and if need be do it then.Don't cut any off ,grow the leader strong with a sacrifice around back.Think about growing a second trunk from down low on your tree, or even a 3rd trunk from a little higher aswell I may grow my lowest left branch on my big suber into a second trunk, still deciding.

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that link is awesome, it expains perfectly what i was trying to say, the 3rd tree down has so many different examples of how an oak branch could grow, nice find .

[deepeetee]

Hey guys,

Photo of my Corky Bark Oak.

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I had removed quite a bit of foliage in thinking with the left right back approach. This lowest branch remaining would have been the second branch, just waiting on a new shoot around the chop i made on the right hand side for the first branch.

But since i read that article, not sure it was the right thing to do anymore

Oh well, think i might still go with a more traditional looking tree, the bends in the trunk lend itself well to the left right back scenario.

The height will also come down further to one of the new shoots.

That seasol bottle is a 250ml bottle.

Love to hear what you think

Dave

[Craig]

Cheers Dave,

i personally would not worry about trying to decide on branch placement yet, better to concentrate on getting alot of new shoots popping from the trunk. I don't think it needs a repot from what i can see, wait till late Winter early spring IMO.
When the new shoots extend to around 10/12 leaves ,pinch out the terminal buds(as far back as 2/4 leaves) to force back budding, keep repeating this process, maybe let a sacrifice grow down low aswell. also i wouldn't be in any hurry to chop too far down the trunk because you will lose the cork bark, which is the feature .Water heaps and fertilise often, keep in as much sun as possible,. Good work Dave , keep us in the loop please

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most likely the top red line.

[deepeetee]

Thanks for the reply Craig

I was thinking maybe an inch or two above the top red line or somewhere around there. Repot next year it is.

Just to clarify, im pinching out the buds on the shoots, for sets of leaves away from the trunk 4 sets? Leaving the buds on the sets of leaves close to the trunk line. Why Pinch? Not cut? Does it make a difference

[Craig]

Dave , constant pinching of the shoots will give you alot more options with the tree ,ie; more branches-more options .

I say pinching not cutting because the new young shoots are easily pinched out, it doesn't need to be back to 2 or 4 leaves but that will give backshooting alot nearer the trunk than pinching say 10 leaves away, which will only give backshooting far out on the existing branches, which you will most likely cut off later anyway. you will need to cut or snap older shoots as they will be too woody to pinch out.